Messages

I think my main problem is that the 12's have no development path laid out - I remember finding a copy of an old one in my old mans chairman era stuff - it had ideas for future possibilities and timescales.

At the moment we seem to get shot at for even suggesting any movement forwards. The rule changes of a few years back hit too many people, too hard, and all at once and it has apparently scared a lot of people off of future change.
We need to make sure that when the next ideas for change come in, they are not so late as to make them drastic in a big catching up measure like the last one.

I am planning on making a new boat towards the end of the year, and propose almost making a concept 12 as a testbed for any future changes - that way people might actually get to sail with/use the ideas before putting verdicts in.
The problem is, what are they going to be if any or am i wasting my time?

Cheers

Mike

No, its definitely a Big Issue - I remember sending Phil the cheque!

For those that may have no clue what Terry is on about, there was a load of experiments with 12's with big (Fireball) rigs at Trent Valley in the 80's by Mr Peebles amongst others...

I have the pictures somewhere - will put them in Ratchet if people are interested

Its funny Antony, I was thinking exactly the same thing the other night but the other way around! Frankly were are running out of things to try in the 12's and resorting to increasingly outlandish attempts to do different things, and while I see that hull and foil design is still to be worked on, the rigs havent done anything but get lighter since the 70's and look particularly old fashioned. I feel something needs to be done to keep interest levels up to stop other people drifting out of the class - I also feel that modernising the rig will make it a more attractive to outsiders which is where the 12s are particularly weak.


Cheers

Mike

PS - one way or the other, the 12's need good secondhand boats!
 

Can't beat the cake....

I think a foot might be a little bit over the top! Bearing in mind that the jib efficiency would not change, the only movement will be in the chord of the mainsail + mast area - probably more like inches, and im sure most people have inches of mast position adjustment available, and if not then a little more rake will compensate.

Mailsail will need to be a bit flatter, but at the end of the day people buy new sails anyway - certainly the sort of people that worry about this sort of thing have a new set at least once every two years...

all boats could be converted pretty easily to a deck stepped mast with a stump to deck level for negligable cost - the likelyhood of the front end of the fleet throwing money at new masts until a new solution has been proven is pretty small, leaving it with the tinkerers to come up with cheap ways of experimenting... Balsa/foam fairings on top of round masts etc etc...

As David says, this is probably the best option for improving the performance without completely burning the rule book, and the class needs to avoid its previous mistakes of sitting on change for too long and avoid single big rule changes

Cheers

Mike

why do you use an Angell mast then Tim? Surely you didnt pay all that extra money for a narrow mast for aesthetic reasons?!

I'm with Matt, it will improve performance on a standard rig, but a proper section has to be the way to go to do it properly...

How do we go about proposing this to the committee? The only way we will find out if the class is willing to move forward or not is to ask them - up untill now we have just thrust more weight reduction under their noses instead of actually making the boat better.

Cheers all

Mike C

Seconding Welsh Harp, it is much nicer to handle weight wise than anything else I have seen/used. - And I got mine powder coated in black! looks the business...

Cheers

Mike C
N3489 Radical Ed

Really looking forwards to County, looking like another top weekend!
For those that havent visited before, its probably one of the nicest clubs in the midlands...

Bring it on

Mike C
N3489 Radical Edward

Strange, its all very quiet around here recently... Wheres all the controversy!?

You can crew for me if you like :-p

Just kidding - we all know what happened the last time we sailed together...

Cheers

Mike

Well, that rocked...

Cheers to all involved, especially Kevin for making sure we got to this great venue! Mike Rice has put a load of pictures up on //www.fotoboat.com from Saturdays racing

Mike C
N3489 Radical Edward

Ive got a spare metal one from my old Baggy - dont want a lot for it - email mike @ teamaardvark.org (without the spaces) or dig my number out of the handbook - it can make its way to Bristol this weekend if you are there?

Cheers


Mike Cooke
N3489 Radical Edward

Due to the fact that I never sail at my home club, I need a cheap sailing club to be a member of while in the limbo of not quite knowing where im going to be living in 6 months time - preferably with two active 12'ers for the gypsy trophy!

I could just join the RYA I suppose, but it doesnt seem like half as much fun.

Anyone?

Mike C
N3489 Radical Edward

Just about finished hacking Radical Edward about over the weekend, so am now ready for it... Check out the forecast - last time I looked was 15 knots on Saturday...

Cheers

Mike

Agree in general with what has been said before, only I disagree with the order!

Pointing in general is developed from the overall efficiency of the complete package, not just a particular bit of it.

Flatness for maximum efficiency through the water

foils and underwater area need to be in as good a condition as you can be bothered to make it - water is denser than air by a considerable amount and imperfections will show up here.

As new a sails as you can afford (from a reputable class sailmaker if I remember Mr Ross correctly...)

The measurements in the tuning guide wont help you much if your centreboard is a foot further back... In general try and set the rig up for balance, keep making minor rake adjustments until you can let go of the tiller upwind with the boat flat is the best guide. This makes sure you are not applying too much handbrake...

Video is good!

Cheers

Mike C
N3489 Radical Edward

PS. I agree with David, paintjobs are very important.

Yeah, but you know what they say about Jack being a dull boy...


Cheers,

Mike C
N3489 Radical Edward and most of Tims boat in the living room...