Messages

Rick,

Do you have a set of Class Rules? If so Rule no 7 explains all.

Thing to remember with a Twelve Class Rule is that it tells you perameters to work within and what isn't allowed, not what is allowed - also download a copy of the measurers guide from the homepage and that will explain what is measured and how.
If in doubt a call to your nearest or friendly class measurer will also help (pages 4 & 5 in the Class yearbook. I am amazed by the number of calls I get - even from the classes outpost in Bavaria!
However not to be obtuse, the answer to your question is yes - if you can get one to work!

Mind you some of the things that came out of him when we were leaning over Chunky Monkey last July, well left best to the imagination!

This one's for Nathan, now he's in the Pudding Club - May the force be with YOU, and thats nothing to do with the Friday night comsumption of Brains................................

Jim,

Looking at the drawings in 'The Story of the National Twelve' I think that you are right and that the great man did intend that rudder to be fixed. Unfortunately I didn't see Westwind's rudder down at the NMMC last week, but that could have given a clue (possibly!)

Looking at my premetrification rules of 1971, the foot was f/2+2', quarter height 3f/4+1.5' and 2' from the head shall never exceed -f/3 0.25'. ( thank God I wasn't a measurer than!) back then the standard rig for a Twelve was what we termed as a 60 / 30 rig and its onlt relatevely recenty that we went to the smaller jib which allowed narrower sheeting and the ability to outpoint most other classes. How often when handicap racing do we sit to leeward going up wind calling 'Up up' and getting abuse for stuffing into the wind from classes that are pointing a good 5 or 10 degrees less than a Twelve and then we sail striaight through their lee?

Rick,

I am going to - just trying to find last years AGM papers that put the whole thing into perspective!

Jim,

Try a Bouncer with a DAGGERBOARD and DOUBLEFLOOR!

And as to why D/boards were banned is a bit hazy in my memory, but I am fairly sure it wasn't down to safety. Mike, can Terry cast his mind back that far back? From a personal view, I prefer to keep the board that bit further forward, hence a d/board or why Mikes style of hatchet  c/board works as he outlined in the Yearbook.

And Jim you would be amazed how small and shallow the rudder on the Doll is!

And also Rick, isn't the reason we changed our sail measurement rules just what Jim C is pointing to; making the sails more efficent with better shelf life?
However I personally believe that the Twelve is a RACING sailboat and that we have to accept that we push the limit of not only the rules but also the materials we use to the extreme so that the production classes from Eastleigh, Banbury or wherever understand the limits and build longevity within them. use the motorsport analagy, build a car that wins a race and then breaks.
I believe that realistically we as a class are at the forefront, along with one or two others , who are still pushing the realms of what works and what wont.

Ok we have digressed from the weight issue, but if things break on the race course thats a race lost, if it breaks just after you got he bullet, he thats a race won!

Fixed rudders - er yes, why not?

No I don't agree, not only would it mean that a measurers job would be more differcult and you would have to get the boat cheked everytime you altered anything.

I am firmly of the belief that whilst weight in the boat is of importance, the weight of the crew also plays a major part. To follow your thought process through to its extreme why not weight in boat, helm and crew at every meeting and issue lead to all the lightweights to make it more even for the more robust of us a la the RS600's? Nah!

To be honest too many people blame losing a race on the weight issue and forget that the nut on the end of the tiller made half a metric dozen cockups on the first beat and lost the race there! Anyone who doesn't believe me, join me in the Watch House during Salcombe Week or ask Jimbo41 who drove a safety boat for me last year and also witnesed it first hand!

Ok Rick, understand what you say, but have you ever looked at the Equipment Rules of Sailing?  Almost every class bases its rules on that, but if people sail a homoginisied class the thought processes are taken away from you, Morrison, Howlett et all have done it for you. Sure looking at the wording of the rules is daunting but when ever was anything worthwhile easy? If you download a copy of the Measurers Guide from the homepage and use it as 'bog time reading' which is what a lot of the luninaries of the class in the past have done, its amazing how much lateral thought happens. Remember that Punkarella and Wizardry were concieved after a hard session in the local and a few beer mats. Next day and a couple of sheets of marine ply and Punka entered this world and the rest as they say is history!

I still maintain that its not the wording of the rules thats the problem, its modern lifestyles that preclude people thinking that they have the time to get their heads around them.

Nigel,

You might be able to fill in some of the missing history. I know that Chris Gillard had Dinsdale until 1977 when he sold her to Andy Dale. Did you sail at Up River 'cause I seem to remember seeing her there when I bought 2808 there in '78. The last entry in the Yearbook for an assn member is 1978 and from there on she is shown as owner by A J Dove of Shoeburyness. Ken Goddard remembers her surfacing at Earlswood Lakes in the early '90's when a John Pearson raced her and there are ELSC stickers still on the tramsom flaps today. From what I undestand he moved to Cornwall and kept Dinsdale at Siblyback Lakes until he sold her about 18 months ago to Martin Couch who I got her from via good old eBay!.

Condition wise the hull is still very good biut the c/board case and decks are in need of surgery ( ie replacement like my left knee! )

I am keeping a photograhpic history of the rejunivation!

John

Rick,

I think the point here is that in todays market its all too easy to go out and buy a boat with all the numbers already dial in and, at the risk of upsetting those that sail them, not really understanding why a certain tweak makes a boat go better. Its very easy to go to Eastleigh and buy a boat off the shelf, set it up the way that the tuning guide says and off you go and if you did it properly get a result .

My belief is that without the Twelve boats like the 200 wouldn't have existed, in the same way as I believe the Merlin spawned the 400's. The essesence is that whilst a class like the Twelve dreams of the heady days of 100+ boats at a champs, the reality is that we appeal to those that like bimbling with our boats and given todays lifestyle fewer and fewer people are prepared to spend time in the garage on a cold and damp Jauary evening sorting out their boat for next Aprill or May. And ok I am in a serious minority here, however with two brand new titanium knees I will be playing on the water again too!

To put things into perspective, last Wednesday I spent the day in Falmouth setting up the Twelve display at NMMC with Andy Wyke and our boats stood out from every other one there, people were drooling over Chunky Monkey, and Andy commented that even when they had an  I14 dispaly he didn't get that sort of awe over a boat! Even the museum volunteers who by their own admission couldn't dream of even getting their feet wet were in rapture looking at a modern Twelve.

In truth we are only at the 23rd day of the first month of 2007 and look at what the class has already achieved, if we ain't at the top of the Premier League who is?

Drat!
Now you understand how I hit he button on eBay!

Rick,

If its any consolation I have given up on modern boats, well I am still putting them together for people, but I do find that the older boats have much more character! Kean is enjoying one of my rejenuvation projects and last weekend my brain failed and I hit the wrong button on an eBay bid so I now have in the workshop a Feeling Foolish (Unregistered) a Bouncer and a 7 plank China Doll of '72 vintage! Sad thing is that I really do remember the Doll when it was new and sailed in its first Salcombe Week..................... and hopefully it will make it to its 36th Birthday there next year - champers, cake and all!

John
3003 and 2632
ex 1030, 2368, 2425,2672,2760, 2808, 3062, 3158,3257, 3339, 3396, 3435, 3444 - bet the 200's can't remember such sad details!

Rick,

If its any consolation I have given up on modern boats, well I am still putting them together for people, but I do find that the older boats have much more character! Kean is enjoying one of my rejenuvation projects and last weekend my brain failed and I hit the wrong button on an eBay bid so I now have in the workshop a Feeling Foolish (Unregistered) a Bouncer and a 7 plank China Doll of '72 vintage! Sad thing is that I really do remember the Doll when it was new and sailed in its first Salcombe Week..................... and hopefully it will make it to its 36th Birthday there next year - champers, cake and all!

John
3003 and 2632
ex 1030, 2368, 2425,2672,2760, 2808, 3062, 3158,3257, 3339, 3396, 3435, 3444 - bet the 200's can't remember such sad details!