Messages

Just a bit more in addition to the info in the reply above - all of which is spot on:

1.  There's a lot of propoaganda about weight but you'll find people winning open meetings across the whole range <17 - >23stones, though it is harder work, as the earlier reply says if you are at either end of this spectrum.  Chapters reputedly carry weight better.
2. Those are the main sailmakers, but not the only ones.  On the whole however, if you're new to the class, better stick with a sailmaker who knows their way around Twelve issues.  As for winning designs, you'll find all of Foolish, Numinous, Bim 3, Chapter and Big Issue 1 & 2 winning open meetings and championship races at the moment.  Each has a set of conditions in which they perform better than the others.  Many of the older designs continue to be competitive inland.
3. Those are the only people making carbon masts.  You can buy a super spar pretty much off the peg - the other two require negotiation with the makers.

MIke D
N3496

Here's another one trying to find out what's happening today, and also how many boats are actually at Porthpean - Graham??

MikenotatBurtonweektooexceptinspirit
N3496

Looks like Meds and Katy have won the week with one race to go (3 1sts and 2 2nds) from John and Nicolle.  Will and Arthur are lying 3rd.

Mike D
N3496

Philip

Nothing that I can see in the rules says you must have a jib.  However:
1. Not sure you'd get a mainsail to work at 8.4sq m within the sail plan.
2. No jib = no slot = dead slow upwind.
3. You do have to have a crew to race.  No jib = bored crew =  bad vibes in boat.

Nigel Waller tried the opposite in Ella Grunge a few years ago - huge jib and small main stepped a long way back.  That didn't work either!

Mike D
N3496

First day's results now posted at:  
http://www.salcombeyc.org.uk/content/racing-results/^regatta^National_Twelve_Regatta_2006/
15 entries (not bad).  Meds and Katy won from John Thornton and Nicole Mayhew.  Based on the weather we've been having today, I imagine it was quite breezy.  Wish we were there ...

Mike D
N3496

Well, it's a bit of a mystery.  The 2000 handbook has an empty line against that number - which simply means that when built it wasn't registered with the Association.  The rear tank doesn't help - lots of 12s have had one.  If you can post a couple of pics - including one of the transom, we might be able to tell you what design it is and hazard a guess as to who built it.  You can also try writing to Michael Brookman who keeps all the records and is the ultimate fount of knowledge about individual boats.

Mike D
N3496

So, Simon - what do we have to do to persuade you to get back into the class we know you love.  The new boats are fantastic, the racing's as good as ever ... how about it??

Mike D
N3496

Further to Antony's reply , it's clear from all the discussion I have sat through at Committee that much the greatest risk to our future would come from adopting the new rules format.  I can see no impediment to our development inside the UK or elsewhere in the world that would arise from losing RYA designated national status (and I speak as someone who sailed a Twelve for fifteen years outside UK waters).  Like Antony, I am voting against adopting the new rules format.

Mike D
N3496

I do think that Giles is overstating the weight thing - Dave Wilkins is very competitive with (I think) about 22-23st all up and we are racing normally with 20.5st and feel fine.  The issue is not the weight or the extra sail - but what will get the people who already have 12s to sail more - at any level, from club racing to championships.  If every currently active 12 sailor increased their number of sailing days by 10% next year, we would notice a difference.  What will make that happen?

Miike D
N3496

There's a wider issue here - which is the discussion that Antony's question prompted.  How do we get more 12s sailing more?

The Committee has put in a huge amount of creative effort into this year's 70th anniversary.  This delivered a terrific event at Pitsford and what should be a really successful Burton Week.  There's a shortage of second hand boats and an apparent growth of interest from potential newcomers.  All this is positive.  Yet ... as the coordinator of the Thames Area series, I can report that open meeting turnouts are down at all our meetings so far this year and this seems to be the picture around the country.  I also don't get the sense that people are concentrating on club sailing instead .  Apart from a few notable hotspots, the club fleets remain patchy.  I don't know how NWNW and Salcombe week entries will turn out.

In UK sailing, there are essentially five levels - club, local/regional open meeting circuit, national open meeting circuit (Gill for 12s), regatta weeks (Salcombe, NWNW) and championships.  If we assume no more than 150 12s being sailed across the UK (am I right on this?), spreading them out this thinly is always going to lead to fleets under pressure.

The two answers that usually spring to mind are:
1. get more people into 12s - but the committee has poured energy into this for years and it's hard to see what more we might do.
2. spread the active ones less thinly by reducing the number of events.  While this is happening to some extent by natural selection (we have lost Pevensey this year for example), no-one would want to be in a position to try to kill off one club's open meeting in order to promote another (and this probably wouldn't work anyway).

So where does that leave us?  If there's been one change that I have really noticed over my 37 (!!) years sailing 12s, it is the amount that we all actually sail our boats.  When I started, I and others at Nottingham routinely sailed Saturday afternnons, Sundays all day and Thursday evenings pretty much every week from Easter through to the end of October.  My sense, all these years on, is that for many (including me) our 12s are more often boats of occasion.  We try to cram in many more conflicting demands into our lives and get the 12 out once every third or fourth weekend.  When we do this, we want great sailing - and I suspect that's why the Gill series has been popular.  I've also noticed this year that long term committed 12 sailors, are tending to spend time in other classes (or yachts), presumably for variety and new challenge.

I recognise that for a good reason, Anne and I haven't been out as much this year as last.  Others will have their own reasons.  But - the question, and challenge, remains - how do we get those people who own 12s to sail them - at any level - more frequently?  Understanding that could lead us to higher turnouts all round - and class assured of long term health.  And it's something we have to crack; we are the current guardians of 70 years of sailing heritage and we need to ensure that this Class is handed on in continuing prosperity to the future.

Mike D
N3496

Here's another tip to add to David's good advice above - when you're running in a blow with the boom against the shroud and the boat starts to roll, pull in 12-15ins of mainsheet sharply.  As soon as the boat steadies, let it out again.  It may not be the fastest way of sailing the run, but you'll stand a better chance of staying upright.

Mike D
N3496

At work so no copy of handbook to refer to.  Hope you've joined the association - then you'll get all the history material you need to check your boat out.  N2482 from memory would have been built around 1970 and is definitely of the seven plank China Doll vintage period - I once owned 2470 which was a Doll built by Wyche & Coppock.   As for first outing tips - pick a nice force 2-3, both of you stay on your toes and be ready to respond and just have fun - sailing a 12 is like no other experience.

Mike D
N3496

Mike

Like Antony, sitting in the office, I can't remember exactly what I have on the shrouds but I'm sure it's more than 12:1.  I definitely have 3:1 above the deck (and Graham does too as I copied it from him).  We're just off on holiday for a week but if you want to come round anytime after we get back on Sat 15th July, we can set up the boat in the garden and you can take some photos.  Same applies to the lowers - the simplest thing is to take them round the mast and anchor them at the gooseneck.  Give me a call if you want to follow this up - 020 8783 9243.

Mike D
N3496

... and the trick here is to make sure that you really clean off the old glue first, otherwise the new gasket won't bed down properly.

Mike D
N3496

Your problem with wanting a grp 12 is that after Paper Dart, there really weren't any until the Design 8 which are hard to get hold of and will cost you more than your budget.  Find a sound Pipedream or Cat, strip it down and epoxy it, put on the most modern fittings and sails you can afford, find an alternative crew to your current 17 stone one and enjoy!

Mike D
N3496