Messages

What happened to Gilespie?
That boat will be a good one who ever gets their hands on her.

Andy

Where are the crew in that one?

Just got my parking permit, was no 40, so they must be pretty full.
Andy

Unfortunately an old sailing mate has decided to get married without checking the N12 calendar, good luck to all who are going. See you al in Salcombe

Andy

Miffy will be there. Hoping the sky is not too clear otherwise Clare will be watching planes rather than reminding me how to steer a 12.

Andy Mck

Boat has been renamed "Miffy" by my 21 month old daughter. She has spent two afternoons sitting in her on the drive, practicing tacking while I have been bimbling. I am aiming to do as much 12ing as I can this year, new baby permitting. 

Now owned by Andy Mckee. Will be based in Oxford in first year, hoping to get back on the circuit for selected events. Now has carbon rig and all the usual toys. We are looking forward to sailing her soon.

Well there is at least one new boat from that thread. Will be picking up 3466 this weekend. Will be at burghfield if I can find someone to crew, future club crew (wife) still pregnant! Will be good to get back in a 12 again, though the watching the food after sailing weight equalised boats for a while is not so appealing. 

Andy Mck
ex 2923, 2947, 3162, and soon to be 3466. 
Wow, thats half as many as david!

I have seen an old picture of the Wood family turning up to a Trent Valley open, probably in the 70's towing with a motorcycle, and the wife and kids in the side car. 12's are so light, its just like having an extra passenger. Managed to get from Porter Brothers to Tenby, via the Wilson trophy towing a Lark, with 3 passengers loaded up for a weeks sailing in a 1.1 fiesta in the 90's. Even got pulled for doing 50 through a small Welsh village at midnight, he let us off when I told the copper it took so long to get to that speed we darn't slow down. The Brakes were never quite the same after that trip. A 1.4 should do the trick easily, any extra kit can go in the boat if necesary.
AndyMck

Just to counter the perceived problem with tacking fully battened sails in light winds, the only sails I have ever had a major problem with are those carrying a single top batten. Having sailed fully battened mains from on boats from 200's to 18 foot skiffs, one of the things that does put me off coming back to 12 sailing is the dreaded top batten. I am not the only person that thinks that fully battened sails are easier, a recent discussion with a respected international umpire suggested that the only class they tend to have an issue about batten popping in light winds at olympic regattas is the 470. I recently have been sailing a boat with a double top batten, and 2 partial lower battens, this produces a very stable sail, that is easy to tack, and easy to depower, and also gives a modern shape, and should be a consideration next time the discussion comes up.
On an aside are there any foolish or numinous owners looking to upgrade soon? The lack of good second hand boats is making the Merlin 2nd hand market look easy.

Andy

A lot of modern classes also have a semi full battened sail. such as the RS800 and red eye solution. I find these a good compromise, as easier to depower, and with 2 top battens they flick much easier than the traditional single top batten. This also gives the option for more sail higher up, which with a carbon mast is easier to control. I will probably be at Hunstanton with the solution if anyone wants to check the sail out.

It would be very interesting to hear the opinions on an increased in sail area, or improving the rig to gain more potential power. Ted and I both sail a single hander that is relatively over canvased for the size of the boat. This has achieved a boat that has a very wide range of weights, as those heavier helms become competitive at lower wind-speeds. The lighter guys, with tuning the rig effectively, and using better downwind speeds remain competitive, almost to the top end of sailable weather. Although the even shorter waterline on a N12 will give them a tendency to trip up when going downwind, this could be overcome with design innovation. 
The other option, with most of the top boats having so much lead in them would be a lead allowance for the lardier crews!! no., ignore that, too difficult to police.

AndyMck

As someone looking back, and considering getting back into 12 sailing, some of Mr Perkins comments do strike a chord. I can see two main reasons why there are small turnouts compared to other classes, the first being a lack of competitive boats. The Merlins now have 2-300 competitive boats, no wonder they can get a good number out. When there is a reasonably priced competitive boat on the for sale section, it is snapped up immediately, and that suggests the class is in good nic. 
The second, and at 12.5 stone my most important point is weight carrying ability of the class. My wife and I are now both in the smaller than average of the general population statistics. But we would struggle, on anything other than a higher wind day, as Mr Perkins found out. Although I suspect he would have done better if he had stuck things out a bit longer. 
This is the main challenge for the class, otherwise population statistics will leave you behind. 
Still, if someone had not got there first we would have had Crouching Tiger in the garage, and you will all be glad to hear the 12 is still regarded as the best boat to bring your kids up on at our club, as long as you are not Phantom sized, which unfortunately the majority of the actively sailing dads are!
Give us an extra metre of sail area, or a second full length batten, an I am sure you will never regret it.
Andy Mckee
Any reasonably priced foolish or DB chapter considered

Had a chat to Grazza at the dinghy show about this. You cant narrow the boats without putting a load out of class.  Therefore all you can do is rquire greater righting moment to keep them upright. This either means greater sail area, or increasing the weight at the top of the mast. I think a return to metal masts would be, I think, a retrograde step. This leaves you with the choice of greater sail area, or more powerful sails.

I never did quite understand why the fully battened sails tried in the nineties were not adopted, they last longer, are easier to "pop" than a single top batten, and are easily depowered for the lighter crews.

The other alternative is the current trend for partially fully battened rig, I have 2 full length battens and two short battens lower down on my Solution single hander, which allows again more high up sail area. I must admit its taken a bit of rig fiddling to get it sorted, but now is not a handful even in over 20 knots of wind.

Grazza's concern was the controlability downwind, and the risk of nosediving. I think this would just insigate a change in hull design, as seen with the 18 footers when they went away from the B18 to the Murray design . They are now increasing the sail area used again, with square topped no1 rigs, which behave differently, and are being used at higher wind strengths than before.

My wife and I proably come in at 20-20.5 stone, and the reason we dont have a twelve at the moment is the all up weight. I am hoping to change that soon, but I would be reluctant to splash out on a new DB boat knowing that we were unlikely to be competative, we sail inland with mainly lighter winds.

Looking at the newer generation of single handers, I would also think about getting rid of some of those correctors. People are getting hooked on the really light weight displacemnt boats, such as the modern Phantom, and Solution, as they plane so early due to their low hull weights, and are fairly easy to sail.

Just some thoughts.

AndyMck

This can happen when the centre of effort of the rig gets in front of the centre of effort for the board. If you are very broad reaching or running when it happens, it is usually due to lack of kicker, as the top of the main goes forward and starts pushig the mast to windward.
If happening on a tighter reach or the bare away, it maybe the board coming up too much, and therefore moving its centre of effort too far behind that of the rig. The big brother of the RS pooh hundred really suffers from this in big winds, especially if dont realise what the big piece of elastic is for.

Andy