Has Jo shown us the way? The DB debate

[Phil Brown]

[MarkSimpson]

[Phil Brown]

Thanks Mark

You are right about carbon. It is expensive and in lots of ways, it is largely a psychological factor.

Graham and Zoe's boat is a glass/epoxy hull, nb not carbon or kevlar, but with a carbon floor, and I believe that it made a pretty good showing a couple of weeks ago . .

I was proposing a Kevlar floor etc on the grounds that it is cheaper, has better impact resistance than carbon and I was considering ways to impart as much structural strength at reasonable cost into what might be a softer hull. If you want something as stiff etc then you are looking at a new boat, which is what I was trying to get away from.

A lot of sailing is in the mind, you can beat people before you go on the water. Which is where Jo scores, he doesn't need the boost of having a shiny carbon craft but has produced a functional boat - at low cost.

You can go out and spend a fortune on tailor made golf clubs, that will make the few % difference to the professionals, but not to mere mortals, or you can spend a couple of hundred on workmanlike clubs which will do exactly the same job for you. The principles are the same.

You couldn't ban carbon now, it is already part of the N12, but banning it (on cost grounds) hasn't done any harm to the Fireballs, but who do allow Kevlar.

[Tim L (Guest)]

Phil

That's the most sensible post I've read on here for ages...!!  But two other things come to mind - the carbon-rig/new sails option is probably the most cost effective way to speed up an AC boat (as I did with 3295).  It's maybe more expensive than fitting a double bottom but its much less hassle and its a longer term investment as you can take it with you to a newer boat.

The other is that one of the drawbacks of AC boats is when short tacking in a bit of breeze (i.e 12kts+ at Salcombe) when the inevitability of shipping some water every tack puts you behind the DB boats (I never found it an issue in lighter airs).

In the BW just gone I suspect it was a combination of the new rig and crew skill/preparation that made the bouncer so fast as the DB is not going to make much difference in a light air regatta with relatively few manouvres and little load on the boat.
 

[Phil Brown]

[THG]

Take your points Phil - but carbon rig 1st on list??  Probably not - look at Matt Stiles result at BW, has an older boat and I'm sure a tin rig but newish sails.  He was mid fleet there, at our Open he won and beat some good DBs too.

Get a new / good 2nd hand sails makes more impact, maybe a new jib as they tend to go 1st.

For the 12s there IS an option to make older ACs DBs - but we shouldn't just say this is the preferred way to go.  Even if I could magic mine to be a DB with no weight increase I wouldn't be at the front of the fleet (maybe ahead of Mr Turner though  ).  I had some 'new' sails at Ripon on the Sunday and beat people I never had before so the investment was worth it.

I still think we need some changes in the format of BW to get more to attend.  

Maybe even we change ONE Class rule - the boat doesn't have to have 2 crew members.  For any single event you should sail either one or two up (cannot switch between).  Simple - no changes to weight / hull / rig etc!

THG

[Phil Brown]

[Martin]

[canon fodder]

Its all very well getting new this and that, but I think most of us (especially me) could gain most by sailing better. I know there is no point on spending much moey on the boat until I start sailing more than once or twice a month and when I do simple things such as self bailers that let water out rather than in and shiney new gunnels will be top of the list.

[Phil Brown]

So come to our coaching session at Spinnaker when we get it set up and we'll address some of those 10 essentials

[Tim L (Guest)]

[greight expectations]

[Mike S]

[jammy dodger]

[quote by=Phil_Brown link=Blah.cgi?b=Cool1,m=1187616125,s=9 date=1187703431]So come to our coaching session at Spinnaker when we get it set up and we'll address some of those 10 essentials[/quote]

OK Phil, no problem organising a training meeting at Spinnaker. There is a minimal charge for visitors on the day but shouldn't put anyone off. I'll catch up with you over the weekend (could do with some help on Toms boat....) and we'll sort a date.

[THG]

Used sailgb before for a few purchases - here's a clinometer;

http://www.sailgb.com/p/silva_clinometer_131/