Fast 2nd hand boat wanted

[Simon Payne]

Hi everyone. 

Im after a good 2nd hand 12 that might win a few races, I used to have a bouncer back in the day. Anything newer than that really, but its got to be quick. i'm looking forward to sailing a 12 again. Last event was exmouth in the 90's

Any help or advice on designs would great!

thanks

Simon Payne

[edwillett]

Welcome back Simon!

You made that Bouncer go very quickly despite its age!

[Simon Payne]

Thanks Ed, hope to see you soon 

Simon

[Little Bo]

N3447 is just the boat for you, we've emailed you!

[Nick Copsey]

Hi Simon

The DCB is the fastest design all round and will cost over £8000 second hand if you can find one

The foolishes with wings and the paradigms are the best of the rest,. The foolishes are probably quicker in planning conditions, Steve Norbury was said to be fastest downwind at burton week 2010, having finishing positions of 12,2,6,4,8. My foolish is up for £5100 with lots of good gear including an improved version of Steves’ winged  rudder.

The standard foolish is still quick in light airs (Chris & Sophie won a race last year at the Leigh and Lowton Gill event) and there are other boats of similar speeds such as chapters, numinous’, paradoxs. These are selling at £3000 - £4000

My opinion is that the foolish with wings is faster than the DCB downwind when it is windy but slightly less stable. I was confident I could compete with the DCBs in a blow but not in the lighter conditions. If you are mostly sea sailing the foiling foolish is a very competitive boat at less than half the cost of a new DCB.

Nick

[Antony (Guest)]

Simon,

 

You probably realise that you are asking a very interesting question to which nobody really knows the answer:

Which of the pre-rudder wings designs can be made to win races against a DCB? 

My thoughts:

1.  I do not think that you can win races in anything other than a light shifty inland race without rudder wings.

2.  There is not much evidence as to how fast older boats can go with wings - but they clearly go faster than they did without wings.  Both Rich Williams (in a Chapter) and Steven Norbury (in a Foolish) have shown the benefit of wings on an older design.

3.  A designer that understands what the wings are doing (Jo Richards or David Hollum?) can probably tell you what shape of older design you want to look for as there seems to be a view that the stern wave and wing interaction is key.

The best bet is probably to buy the best boat you can justify and put wings on it.  Given your other boat you could always trying putting better wings on than others are using as there must still be plenty of development left in wing size/shape.  Do not forget that not only do you need to buy the new wings/system but with most boats you also need to do some reinforcement of the transom so the wings do not pull it off... so it is easy to spend a lot of money.

Have fun!

Antony

[Simon Payne]

Hi Guys

Thanks for your advice. Of course I'd dearly love a DCB. They are cleary great boats, but with the kids in 29ers and Fevas in reality I probably wont have a crew for much of the time, and will probably have just as much fun in a second hand boat that i can fiddle with and take my chances when we do get to go to an event. 

The foil thing is interesting, still got a few foils here from the Moth :-)

Thanks again

Simon

[Dave Croft]

Hi Simon,

Don't forget Arthur and Mary Henderson won Salcombe week in his dad's old Baggy which now has a 'T'-foil, not that there are are many double-bottom baggy's about... however i did notice Tom Hayhoe's Ian Ridge built boat was gathering dust at Ranelagh last time I was there - just a thought.

Look us up at the next 29er event (Winter Champ's) it would be nice to have a 12 sailor to chat to, it seems most of the parents are x-Oppy or topper's.... (our 29er is no1235).

Dave

 

[angus]

If you are looking to play about with foils I think you could do no better than get a Fainal chapter, Big issue or foolish and play about fitting your own foils. The chapter is probably the slowest but is the best weight carrier whcih may be a factor if you don't have a regular crew and is designed for the stern to be lifted, this is done by a bouyant rudder, seems tailor made for a foil and I am surprised more people havn't tried them. I am not aare of anybody trying a foil on a big issue but Mark Simpson has a big issue and a foolish up for sail so you could have a look at both of them and pick which ever you liked. He was always quick in it in a blow.