DB or AC

[Simon (Guest)]

Am I correct in thinking that a boat built after 3414 cannot sail in the Admirals Cup fleet even if she is a single bottom?
Any body like to clarify this
Thanks

[Antony (Guest)]

Simon,
My understanding is that the only definitions of what is AC are those in the NOR of Burton Wk.  At present this means that you are right, that the boat must be 3414 or below and single-bottomed. 
Importantly this definition is discussed every year or two and can be changed at any time.  In the past we have certainly discussed what to do about old boats that were converted, 3003 and 3403, but to be honest i cannot remember if we have ever discussed newer boats which are single-bottomed.
Anybody with a view can ask the Committee to consider an adjustment to this rule.  In the past the Admirals Cup itself had the elligbility changed most years to keep up with what was regarded as an 'old boat'.
Hope this helps,
Antony

[paul turner]

There was some debate on the discussion board a year or two ago when I took the double floor out of N3500 Crazy Diamond and the general opinion seemed to be that she could not be classed as an AC boat. I think as a class we should sort this one and have some clear rules to avoid confusion. Paul

[Antony (Guest)]

Paul, i think that you are being unfair.  The rules do exist, they are written down and they are clear. 
If people want to see them follow the Burton Wk link to the NOR and look for the list of trophies or try this link.. http://www.national12.org/events/2008/burton_week_NOR_2008.pdf
The question that comes up with the AC regularly, and has done since the trophy was awarded, is whether they need up dating.  I for one am not clear that there is a need to ask thi question this year, but if members want it discussed then the new Committee (of which i a not a member) will presumably be happy to do this.
Antony

[Martin (Guest)]

Surely after looking at the NOR where the definition is the boat being self draining, and sail no is after 3414. Surely the advantage here is NOT the sail number but whether the boat can self drain, as a self draining boat can be "up and running after a capsize" quicker than an single bottom boat. Also they will be stiffer than single hull boat. I think therefore we could dispense with the sail number and make is easy- AC= single bottom hull, regardless of sail number. Therefore any boat converted to db will no longer be an AC boat.
 
Martin

[Gareth (Guest)]

I thought that the NoR for Burton week has it covered with the word AND.  The boat must have a sail No before 3414 AND comply with the rules pre 1996. Doesn't  this mean that any AC to DB converted boats only comply with the sail number half of the requirement to compete as an AC boat? Any boat after 3414 doesn't comply with the sail number half of the rule. For DB boats converted back to SB is there not the possibility that despite not having a DB they may not meet all of the rules pre 1996.
Gareth
3162 Bicycle Clips 

[Antony (Guest)]

Martin,
You are right that you could make a case for that change, and indeed it was discussed as Paul mentioned.  I think, from memory, the conclusion was that for the Admirals Cup itself to be true to the 'old boat' concept it should not include new carbon built single-bottom boats.  
Personally i think that there is more case to include the old boats that have been converted, as they are still old and we should not discourage the owner from a bit of DIY.
Antony
 

[Martin]

Surely after looking at the NOR where the definition is the boat being self draining, and sail no is after 3414. Surely the advantage here is NOT the sail number but whether the boat can self drain, as a self draining boat can be "up and running after a capsize" quicker than an single bottom boat. Also they will be stiffer than single hull boat. I think therefore we could dispense with the sail number and make is easy- AC= single bottom hull, regardless of sail number. Therefore any boat converted to db will no longer be an AC boat.
 
Martin

 
Just to clarify there is currently more than one user on this forum named Martin.  The views quoted above should not be attributed to me!! 

[Simon (Guest)]

I completely agree with Antony about this one the current rules are very clear and work.  We certainly not want Crazy Diamond turning up in the AC fleet!
However......
When I started this I was only considering boats like 3422 and 3434 which were built as single bottom boats that for one reason or another were long in the building and this spaned the rule change.  They are therefore AC boats by constrution but beause of the sail number rule cannot sail as an AC boat.
However as boats converted to DB before 3414 are now not AC boats and are listed in the handbook couldn't we do the same with certain post 3414 boats to sail as AC? 
The one thing I like about the 12 fleet is each boat has a personality and history and it is not hard to track what is what. You only have to look at how good peoples memories are in this forum.
Simon