Antony

[Antony]

N3484 is now sold, despite my taking it for a sail at Thorpe Bay.

If anybody has a DB boat that is not getting the use it deserves, or even better is tempted to buy a new one in time for next year, then let me know and i can provide a short-list of other people that expressed an interest in buying Fatso.  

It is very encouraging for the class how fast these boats change hands, and somewhat disappointing for the class that we cannot get more new boats built and more second-hand boats on to the market to satisfy the demand.

Antony
N35??

[THG]

Isn't the fact the 2nd hand boats go quickly showing that there is maybe too much of a price premium for the new boats?  The 12s are clearly built well and are competitive for many years.  (I know the Merlins are even more expensive - maybe the demographics are just different as they still sell more boats).  A 2nd hand good DB is nearer the cost of a newish 200 / 400.

THG

[Antony]

Kean,

You make a good point, and there is a valid argument that we should sell the second hand boats for a higher price to reduce that premium.  I chose not to do this, and think that I sold the boat for a fair price based on the initial cost and the depreciation that you would expect over that period.  I am actually pleasantly surprised by the eventual cost of my main hobby since that boat was built in 2003.

We are lucky that there are many ways of getting a new boat, from designing and building your own all the way to calling up Tom at P&B and then sending him a large cheque.  The luckless RS200 sailor can only write the big cheque to the big company, and is then locked in to buying their new sails from that same company for ever.  I am happy that in comparison my new boat is better built in more modern materials and offers value for money.

Antony

[davidgr (Guest)]

As an observer (now), classes like the Merlin and Solo have generated momentum, having sustainably high second hand values and acceptable new prices, meaning that it is worthwhile for wealthier owners to regularly replace their boats, whilst providing a steady stream of competitive second hand boats.

It is just a thought, but perhaps you should encourage Tom not to offer a high tech alternative, but to kickstart the new Foolish with a competitively price pointed "off the shelf" non-carbon boat.  If my memory is correct Zippy is not high tech, but remains competitive after ?? quite a few years.

Once you get the cycle of replacing boats every two or three years, the class would be much healthier.

The only other important part of the Merlin/Solo model, is that they both have pretty good club racing set ups, so that there is a good market for good second or third hand boats.

David
Y177/S4789

[James (Guest)]

Anthony,
Just saw your post about people interested in buying a secondhand db 12, I'm thinking of selling N3482 'Steam Pudding' which is a wooden DB boat. So could you put me in contact with the people that were interested in yours please?

thanks
james

[tedcordall]

[Antony]

[Derek]

Actually Stevie bought his boat from me.
Stig McDonald moulded it for me, Gerry decked it and did a fair bit of remedial work to rectify prosity and Stevie painted and fitted it out, but the concept was good.
The moulds went to Lynton after that (Murrell and Sue Pelling's boats as well as Bart) and subsequently to Mike Cooke.
The target was to get the basic hull out at under 3000.
Given the stiffness of the basic structure of modern boats, Carbon is simply not necessary.
Steve's boat is epoxy and mostly e-glass with some carbon tape in high load areas - perfectly adequate and no weight penalty. Carbon, being more rigid, is actually rather more brittle.
Buying the best you can buy because it removes one thing that might be making you slow is something we all are prey too!

[Jimbo42]

[tedcordall]

[Roly Mo]

Just for the record 3447 carries 18kgs of lead and is NOT a carbon hull so I'dont belive building in carbon is just a weight issue, and yes it was the best I could afford (previous owner ANTONY!!)

RM

[tedcordall]

Time for someone who actually knows what they are talking about to reveal all, then. Why is carbon so fashionable. (Biggest advantage I've found is that people come up and stroke it and say, "Ooh, is that carbon fibre"!)

[Mikey C]

[quote by=tedcordall link=Blah.cgi?b=Cool1,m=1190035015,s=11 date=1190986704](Biggest advantage I've found is that people come up and stroke it and say, "Ooh, is that carbon fibre"!)[/quote]

Nail, meet head. If you cant take the lead out of the boat there is no point.

[Antony]

I actually slightly disagree with Mike on this one.  The belief is that there is a marginal benefit from having the weight in the right place (the middle) and that the boat might remain stiff for longer.  In practice the benefits are marginal.   I buy boats with lots of lead in them confident that the class has no intention of lowering the overall weight any further in the foreseeable future.

It is also important to realise that very few 12s actually have any meaningful amount of carbon in them anyway and that it is not a huge part of the cost of a new boat.

Antony
35? (must get it a number!)

[tedcordall]