Jibsticks

[mutt]

11.6.1 The jib may be boomed out by a jibstick attached to the mast.
Why do we need that rule - is there a rule that otherwise prevents jibsticks?

[Jimbo41]

No. In my opinion this rule is unnecessary. The way I personally see it, unless something is expressly forbidden, it's allowed. If it's expressly allowed, everything else would be forbidden. The dangly pole replaced the traditional jibstick thingy. Both are represented in this rule.

[Lukepiewalker]

Maybe it prevents ones that aren't mast mounted.

[Jimbo41]

Maybe it prevents ones that aren't mast mounted.

Why would one want to do that? Any possible non mast-mounted jib sticks?
Cheers!
Jim.

[THG]

Not 100% sure but didn't the first Big Issue use some sort of jib boom and was thus not fixed to the mast?  In terms of performance the flyaway stick makes sense, the Albacores use them, I think the Ents now also want to use it and I know a Firefly sailor or two that would like to have it.  Fly away jib sticks have got to be about the best / simplist performance improvement and means you don't loose the jib stick in a capsize!  I digress - but surely the rule should say a jib pole is allowed / not allowed end of?

[mutt]

What I was thinking when I posted that rule was more to do with the sense of ruling innovations IN. The implication being that if innovations aren't explicitly ruled in - to the designer - it looks like there is a risk of any new innovation being ruled out of spec simply because it isn't already in the rules.
It makes much more sense (to me) to only rule things OUT. Then it is clear to the designers that everything else is up for grabs.

[Jimbo41]

What I was thinking when I posted that rule was more to do with the sense of ruling innovations IN. The implication being that if innovations aren't explicitly ruled in - to the designer - it looks like there is a risk of any new innovation being ruled out of spec simply because it isn't already in the rules.
It makes much more sense (to me) to only rule things OUT. Then it is clear to the designers that everything else is up for grabs.

Agreed. But don't forget the "not in the spirit of the rule/class" getout thingy..... You can smother just about anything with that type of excuse...

[Jimbo41]

Not 100% sure but didn't the first Big Issue use some sort of jib boom and was thus not fixed to the mast?  In terms of performance the flyaway stick makes sense, the Albacores use them, I think the Ents now also want to use it and I know a Firefly sailor or two that would like to have it.  Fly away jib sticks have got to be about the best / simplist performance improvement and means you don't loose the jib stick in a capsize!  I digress - but surely the rule should say a jib pole is allowed / not allowed end of?

Yes - and paradoxically it wasn't considered to be out-of-class either!!!!

[Ian (Guest)]

Excuse my ignorance but does every one in the 12 fleet use a dangly pole now-a-days?
 
Cheers
 
Ian

[Jeremy C]

Ian,
Yes is the answer if you want to be competitive! The dangly pole was the most significant recent development in the class allowing the jib to be used to its maximum which also helps keep the nose out of the water at times!
Jeremy

[ifoxwell]

Is there no lose of upwind performance with a pole flapping around bu the mast?
Ian

[Jeremy C]

There may be the tiniest effect upwind but this is blown away by the increased performance and stability generated by using if off the wind.
ian... have you a N12.. are you the same Ian who used to own Emoo?

[ifoxwell]

Afternoon Jeremy... no I dont yet... and yes I am
Ian

[Jeremy C]

Ian,
 
more than welcome to come and test sail ours at Burghfield if you want!

[ifoxwell]

Thanks for the offer
Might just take you up on that one day
Ian