Future Burton Week survey

[John Meadowcroft]

[THG]

[SamM]

The Tasars seem to be doing quite well for Nationals entry now.   They have the benefit of being able to get boats from europe for the weekend, and are riding the bow wave of the new rig etc. (don't want to open up a new debate there, particularly as a lightweight team!).  It does bring up the point though that people do look at Nationals attendance for the health of a class, and is an important consideration for many when deciding whether to join.

It seems to me that we have a very active vintage fleet and Northern fleet that largely don't do BW and could provide us with the answer to this problem.  Very simplisticlly, if we make BW attractive to them, the numbers go up towards the 70 mark, people will see the class in a better light. Also, it should encourage more new people into the boat as there should be more of a spread in the fleet due to the different speed of the older boats, and therefore shouldn't discourage so many people due to the competitiveness of the fleet..  Maybe it even encourages more people to replace their boats more frequently, solving the lack of second hand boats.

I'd be very interested to hear what would encourage the vintage guys and the boats from 'up north'  to do a BW...

Sam

[Tim L (Guest)]

Yes, the last time I bumped into Tim Knight he was singing the praises of a shorter event and while personally I prefer the week I can see that for a lot of people it makes more sense when they have a lot of other school holiday committments.  And it would look better in these league table obsessed times....  It also might have the benefit of pushing more people to go to Salcombe/Norfolk to get a whole weeks socialising/sailing.

I think the class has been much too precious about the champs for a while - the obsession with holidng it only at open sea venues and going miles out for long hours.  Both the Fireflies and 200s have held champs at much more enclosed venues (eg restronguet) with much bigger entries.  Looking at the quietness of the secondhand list one assumes that all those AC boats that were on it a couple of years ago are in use at club level - probably by people who are sailing with their kids and maybe not that proficient with the boat.  So no suprise that the champs ends up limited to a hardcore of experienced crews.  Maybe a shorter event at a easier venue might tempt a few more of these sort of owners.

As to the Northern fleet - from a few years ago I remember hearing from someone from 'up there'   that even if the champs went north most of the boats up there wouldn't come - though maybe that has changed since the newer boats started migrating north too!?

[Roly Mo]

[Howard C (Guest)]

[vince (Guest)]

At the risk of sounding like a northern edition of 'Grumpy Old Men', I agree with Bernard and Howard -  its not so much the geography as  the other factors.
I last did BW at Fowey. Now small children and BW don't readily mix. For many there is the need to make time for family holidays and  ski holidays or whatever. And don't get me on to  work, middle age, middle age spread, the garden, children's parties, tax returns, ....!

Really though, the actual sailing and racing is often lot more fun and interesting at something like last year's big Northampton event or in NW Norfolk Week. By contrast the long days out at sea in BW can sometimes seem very long and dull at the back!

A short  (3 day?)  Burton on the sea, at venues closer to the shore like Hunstanton or Felixstowe, might attract more boats  for one or more days.  The BC would  remain a big race with a day to itself, with, say, 2 races per day on the other 2 days.  If the Burton Cup itself were sailed on a weekend how many might we get on the start line?
Another weekend in the calender could then be a high profile Northampton type event, maybe with a trophy for each race?

Al Sithee
(Vince)
N2531  and N3395

[angus]

Just to add my weight to the grumpy old men in the North we are not really interested in a weeks serious sailing any where north or south inland or sea. we go for a fun week at Loch tummel where my crew can do lots of fun and stupid things and i can ly about and drink loads and more importantly not come last! We do tend to prefer sailing inland cause we can easily come a shore when I cock it up or the crew gets tired. But generally being at the back end of the fleet weekends suit us better and we wouldn't be too bothered about national championships where ever it was held.
If Burton week did come north we would try and suport it but that would probably mean a day ot two at the most.
While we are on the subject we would love to come to the inlands but the thought of travelling 400+ miles in November when there is a good chance that it going to be too cold or too windy for us, Na!
Basically what I'm saying is it doesn't really matter what you do with Burton week it won't make much difference to us.

[Roly Mo]

The turnout at the Ripon summer event this year (37 boats, and so nearly more) would seem to support Vince's comments.  Lots of people came to that who aren't Burton regulars and I have to say we are all hoping there's another similar event next year.  I'd hope to be sailing in that sort of event with Ellie within the next couple of years, and ICM and I have already talked about NWNW 2009 (60th anniversary year) with a view to mixing and matching some Pie Boy sailing and some 'sailing with offspring' to suit weather conditions - not something we could do at BW.  The other big advantage of NWNW is that you can sign up for the venues you like and leave out the ones you don't.

RM

[SamM]

Hadn't intended to create a 'north-south' divide - I am a northener after all...  I think a 3-4 day event at a venue that wasn't too rough to put off te vintage boats could be good for attendance and thereby racing and social.  You could even change the burton cup to a long pursuit race (or is that heracy?!)

[vince (Guest)]

Definitely keep the Burton Cup itself as a level rating, pure, very demanding, long sea race.

The 14's  have  separate individual cups within the Prince of Wales cup race for older and classic boats I think. We could have AC, 4 plank and clinker trophies within the main BC race to boost the numbers on the line for that race. Why not focus on really increasing the numbers of that one race as a first priority? (the older boats have more chance of lasting one sea race more easily than seven without breaking up!)

Speaking of the PoW cup, which is even longer and tougher than the Burton, - the 14s used Hunstanton twice as a PoW venue (read Robin Steavenson's ''Marks to Starboard'') - it's a demanding enough venue.