National 12

Mikey C · 03 Apr 2007, 08:38

GPS action replay?

rick perkins · 03 Apr 2007, 08:56

Yep

rick perkins · 04 Apr 2007, 02:04

Have a look at this link - this shows how you can use the data for post race analysis & coaching.

Full replay using the data from the Velocitek unit.

http://www.mustoskiff.com/reports-and-news/2007/replays.htm

James Taylor · 04 Apr 2007, 02:47

rick perkins · 04 Apr 2007, 03:10

[quote by=James_Taylor link=Blah.cgi?b=Cool1,m=1175205580,s=18 date=1175694479]

What is the differnce please tell me?
James
N3402
N3304 (Up for Sail)[/quote]

er ... keelboats are heavy & their motion is damped by the weight and they respond slowly to trim changes.; the same is not true of any dinghy.

I don't think a GPS is an expensive bit of kit available only to the rich; it's cheap.

If you don't log actual races you won't be able to use the info that is gained in a coaching situation.

Did you actually look at the demo?

Emma G · 04 Apr 2007, 04:12

rick perkins · 04 Apr 2007, 04:27

Emma G · 04 Apr 2007, 04:45

I just think things should be kept affordable thats all for everyone regardless of their disposable income and also to keep the youngsters in sailing without fleecing the parents too much and a GPS is another expensive item.

Emma
N3402
N3304

rick perkins · 04 Apr 2007, 05:01

[quote by=Emma_Gager link=Blah.cgi?b=Cool1,m=1175205580,s=22 date=1175701524]I just think things should be kept affordable thats all for everyone regardless of their disposable income and also to keep the youngsters in sailing without fleecing the parents too much and a GPS is another expensive item.

Emma
N3402
N3304
[/quote]

So a carbon mast & boom and a full carbon boat are budget choices ...

There are many very affordabe old boats which means that 12 sailing can be very cheap but I don't see affordability having any impact on a the average double bottomed boat owner ... as I said you don't have to buy a GPS just like you don't have to buy a carbon mast or new sails.

12 sailing can be as expensive or as cheap as you choose to make it ...

andymck · 04 Apr 2007, 11:53

This is just the idea one class is going to pick up and run with, and they will get more owners as a result. Imagine Burton week training, with several boats with track logs, including the champ favourites. Race winner going through the decisions they made, what a fantastic way to promote the class, and help the fleet standard as a whole.
My wife has just started sailing in the last two years, and the whole concept about wind shifts and on the water decision aking is the hardest thing to tech and learn. I expect we will see it accross all the youth fleets in the next few years, including regattas, as data recorders to help with training.
I dont know how much they cost, but if similar to an electric compass, I know which i would rather have! and learn more from.
I cant see how one of these could help you in a race, especially if you made it a rule that they could only be used to record data, and not be seen.

Is it about time that the N12 started to look forward again, now the 70th year has finished?

Innovations like this is one of the reasons the Musto Skiff is winning the battle with the 700, I just hope Rick has managed to turn enough heads with his demonstration to get a dispensation for a few events, hopefully for a few boats. I may then be able to persuade my wife that a 12 is a better way to go than a 200 after we have sold the coffin she learnt in.

Andy
Anyone need an ENT?

rick perkins · 05 Apr 2007, 08:42

Ah ... a man with vision.

We have already altered the NOR for the Musto Skiff Worlds and will be running debriefs after the racing looking at the tracks of a range of boats from each race.

This technology is coming to our sport; you can either resist it or embrace it ...

John Meadowcroft · 05 Apr 2007, 09:39

Interesting debate. Having watched the replay of Rick's racing it is clear that he had a very large lead which he then lost but hung on for ultimate victory. Not sure that it tells anyone who was not involved in the sailing much at all - a great training aid for those on the water maybe.

GPS instrumentation is something that is clearly currently banned and I understand those who therefore do not want to see it today when racing, and I agree with them.

Looking forward it may well be that there is a trend towards this sort of thing becoming the norm in the sport and it might be a good idea to consider allowing the relaxation of our rules for a period to see how and where this technology develops. I dont see it as particularly dangerous technology. Lots of data that will be particularly difficult to interpret. That said I am able to sail upwind on big courses today with my eyes glued to an electronic compass so I am sure that if I could get a display that gave me sensibly damped VMG data I might spend some time looking at that too! It could also be the thin end of the wedge as well as GPS instrumentation improves and more processing ability is put into smaller and smaller units.

If this has got real legs and you want to move it on please get something together for the AGM at Brixham. All submissions need to be sent to the Class secretary at least six weeks before Burton Cup day. This is essentially the middle of June. This is the only forum to make a change.

Where this sort of thing has been used with success in the past is with Olympic etc events where the organising authority has required competing boats (some and not all) to carry on board provided instrumentation which has then broadcast the output so that it can be viewed in real time. It has tended to be more popular with the armchair viewers than the competitors and I understand that some units have been known to be accidentally switched off!

I think that I would support a relaxation of such rules for a season provided that the use of GPS was prohibited from Burton Week. Quite frankly I do not believe that such rules are easily enforceable outside of the Burton Week environment.

Thats all for now, I better go and look for a job!

John

rick perkins · 05 Apr 2007, 10:01

tedcordall · 05 Apr 2007, 02:29

If the proposal was to allow GPS to record data while racing but not to allow that data to be used or viewed in real time then, as there is no advantage gained while racing, why would people object.

TC (N3459)

jeki3111 · 09 Apr 2007, 05:40

i personally cant see myself needing one but i dont see why people shouldnt be allowed to use them
how exactly could they improve your performance whilst on the water. i can oly see them being useful in a 'come ashore and check data' type scenario