Main width measurements

[rick perkins]

Are the figures on my certificate now out of date - should they be updated to the new rules?

What happens when I swithc between new & old rules sails?

[Antony]

Rick,
There is no need to change anything.  When you buy a new set you might want to have a conversation with your sailmaker about whether there is any point changing the foot length.

Antony

[rick perkins]

But and the cross widths a new function of the foot?

So for the same foot length you get different cross widths under new rules?

[Antony]

Rick,
You are right, but in practice I am 100% certain that your sails will fit in to the new cross-widths with no change to your certificate.  

The rule change took area from the 1/4 height that sailmakers could not even use (so your sails were well inside your maximum there) and put it at the 3/4 height (where you were previously pretty close to your maximum but will now have some space).  People with better knowledge and understanding then me wrote the rule confident that this was the case for all sails made in recent years.  The rule was proposed by our two main sailmakers (Tom Stewart and Kevan Bloor).

Antony

[rick perkins]

So if I want a new set then I will need my certificate updated - yes?

[Jimbo41]

Rick, from what I understand the rule changes apply as from the date given.

They don't have retrospective action, otherwise everyone would be forced to buy a new set of sails with the result that the only ones who would be happy would be the sailmakers - esp. Tom and Kevan!

That means you can still (legally) use an old sail on your boat.

Cheers!

Jim.

[Antony]

Rick,
No, wrong.  You can make another sail to your same luff and foot lenghts, but with slightly more area in the 3/4 height than your current sail.  

I have ordered a new suit and have no intention of changing anything.  I have to admit that I do not know if Tom (who has sails to the new measurement) has changed his certificate but I do not think that he has.

Antony

[rick perkins]

But wont yopur 3/4 measurement be greater than that shown on the certificate?

[Antony]

Finally understand your point!  Yes, it might well be, but as long as your foot and luff measurements are consistent and the sails is within the new permitted cross-heights for those then it is fine.  We are not going to re-issue all of the certificates in one year.

Before you ask where the new cross-height tables are, I am not sure if they are on this site yet.

Antony

[Antony]

Rick,
In any case whoever measures your new sails can simply write in the new cross-heights on your certificate, there is no need to re-measure anything it will simply bring your certificate up to the new rules.  The only problem would have come if the new rule had meant that your old sails did not fit, and that is what we hvae been careful to avoid.
A

[Kevan, Hon. Certification (Guest)]

Hi everyone
In answer to all your questions.  When you buy a new suit of sails to the new rules the measurer should enter your new maximum cross widths on the certificate as a new rig.  The older sails will be treated as legal as long as they are dated before the change and conform to the previous cross widths requirements listed on the certificate.

Hope this answers all your queries.

Kevan

[Steve S (Guest)]

[John Chalker]

[JohnMurrell]

Just to throw my two pennys worth in; surely its the date that the sails were originally measured that counts, not the date they get transfered to another boat? Otherwise as John C says the market has just crashed on s/hand sails! Ah! Kevan and Tom rub your hands with glee..............

With boats that have 'old rules' and 'new rules' sails, in my 'umble position surely the 'old rules' sails can still be used providing the 'old rules' measurements for them are correct on the certificate?

[Antony]

Stevie,
It is possible that I have confused myself, and or others, in what I wrote above.  My excuse, if i need one,  is that I was not party to the preperation of this rule change as it was before I returned to the committee.  I think that the answer to your question, as John Murrell suggests, is in the note to the relevant rule (11.3.6).  

See:
http://www.national12.org/downloads/n12_class_rules.pdf

or:
Rule 11.3.6 Shall apply to sails first measured on or after 1st January 2007. Sails first measured before this date shall conform to the rules then in force, unless the Owner wishes to apply Rule 11.3.6 herein.

Antony
N3484