What is not in the 78kg?

rick perkins · 24 Mar 2007, 04:38

I'll be at most of the Gill Meetings (that don't clash with Musto Skiff events) and BW so will be good to catch up with some of you guys then.

I am not saying we need to be like the RS200 but there are some things to be learn't.

Of course the boat is very different & I have enjoyed many hours in the garage this winter fiddling with my 12 ...

Yes lets encorage choice & innovation but not put new people off with unnecessary complexity.

Rick

Jimbo42 · 24 Mar 2007, 06:34

rick perkins · 24 Mar 2007, 08:35

Have a look at this thread ... this is how this person views the 12 rule set ...

http://www.yachtsandyachting.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=2624&PN=1&TPN=2

Perhaps someone with more 12 rule knowledge could respond to this ...

Rick

PS - Is it true fixed rudders are allowed?

JohnMurrell · 24 Mar 2007, 11:02

Fixed rudders - er yes, why not?

JohnMurrell · 24 Mar 2007, 11:16

And also Rick, isn't the reason we changed our sail measurement rules just what Jim C is pointing to; making the sails more efficent with better shelf life?
However I personally believe that the Twelve is a RACING sailboat and that we have to accept that we push the limit of not only the rules but also the materials we use to the extreme so that the production classes from Eastleigh, Banbury or wherever understand the limits and build longevity within them. use the motorsport analagy, build a car that wins a race and then breaks.
I believe that realistically we as a class are at the forefront, along with one or two others , who are still pushing the realms of what works and what wont.

Ok we have digressed from the weight issue, but if things break on the race course thats a race lost, if it breaks just after you got he bullet, he thats a race won!

martin 1262 · 24 Mar 2007, 11:39

Having looked at this thread with interest,which started life as what is not included in the 78kg, I for one would do not want to see any wholesale changes to the weight defintions, however we care to measure it. Many people buy and sail 12's because they are a great family boat, give the owners a challenge to race and get the best from it, and also meet a great bunch of friendly guys...and gals...so carrying few extra kg's at the back end of the fleet (where I normally find myself) isn't going to make all that much difference. Regular sailing and finding out what makes them tick is far more valuable, which includes getting friendly tips from other guys. I can easily lose weight from my boat...simply by looking at what I eat!!!

However the fact that we do have a development class also highlights something that some other classes don't have.. and thats plenty of healthy debate on so many issues...I am sure that will never end!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

rick perkins · 25 Mar 2007, 08:39

[quote by=John_Murrell link=Blah.cgi?b=Cool1,m=1169288680,s=48 date=1169679735]Fixed rudders - er yes, why not?[/quote]

I assume daggerboards were banned as many people sail on restricted waters and the class didn't want boats that could be dammaged by running aground ... but ripping your transom off with a fixed rudder is OK?

Rick

PS: John - would you be able to address that blokes points on the Y&Y forum - I have had a go but of course being a newbie I don't know the answers to his points ...

Mikey C · 25 Mar 2007, 08:41

[quote by=John_Murrell link=Blah.cgi?b=Cool1,m=1169288680,s=48 date=1169679735]Fixed rudders - er yes, why not?[/quote]

Hmm, I don't know, sounds a bit dangerous - what about sailing in restricted waters? You might run aground?!

Jimbo41 · 25 Mar 2007, 09:04

Jon_P · 25 Mar 2007, 09:12

Selling a AC boat would also become harder as you would state the weight all up, which for most boats would be miles away from this new magical limit.

THG · 25 Mar 2007, 10:05

Isn't the vertical lifting type rudder (cassette) a 'fixed' rudder once its down - sailing in restricted waters it won't kick up. People have the choice to use it or not - but this is at odds with having a rotating centreboard :-/

Kean

rick perkins · 25 Mar 2007, 10:38

John Meadowcroft · 25 Mar 2007, 11:06

I can see there is a potential inconsistency.

You can (any many people do) have 2 rudders. the centreboard/daggerboard issue is a little bit more fundamental! it would be pretty easy to swap your rudder but not convert a daggerboard to a cboard

I am not sure which came first. did rudders always lift or were they all fixed in the early days? I would assume that the initial 12s had big spoon fixed rudders and centreboard. does anyone know?

Jimbo41 · 25 Mar 2007, 11:53

Meds,

I'm pretty sure that the centreboard came before the daggerboard. It was a 40-45 Kg rotating metal plate in the first 12s...Hardly something to use as a daggerboard....

It's odds on for fixed rudders too, but I can't be sure on that.

Cheers!

Jim.

THG · 25 Mar 2007, 12:24

Back to a previous thread then on a 'rotating dagger board' which was banned! This novel idea seems to offer best of both worlds (no experience so maybe talking BS) - wondering how many would convert / new builds would use this in preference to a CB.

Yes you can have 2 rudders - more expense! But hey thats our choice (unlike death & taxes).

Kean