annoncing the international 12

[Tom_Gruitt_www.fotoboat.com]

nope! There is the 6ft, R class, 12ft, 13ft, 16ft and 18ft skiffs, i guess UK and AUS Cherubs are skiffs too, and maybe a moth! 'Skiff' is such a vague word!

[angus]

I believe skiffy the Kangeroo has 2 feet

[Jimbo41]

The webshots of men (and perhaps girls - excepting those with the large testicles Ted  :B) on the longer skiffs remind me of the Tiller Girls where they all look very elegant in their longlegged lizardsuits everything seems to be fast and streamlined.

 But I've seen 49ers on the Ammersee and when there's little to  no wind, the boats and crews together look like caddis flies stuck by surface tension, trying to keep the relatively narrow hull form from heeling.....

Hmmm. Pass the Skiff (OOOPS!   :B)

Jim N3130 and 3470 (Wood - still does as it should)

[icecreamman]

All this chat about what is and is not a skiff and who should have designed it is rather reminiscent of Uffa Fox and his Flying 15, not to mention Flying 12, Flying 20 and the rest
 

[janeysailor12]

My B14 is classed as a Skiff but one without wires.  We just have HUGE tramps lovely to lie on whilst hurtling along.  Having spent rather a long afternoon last week mastering the spinnaker on the skiff....sorry B14.....I've come to the conclusion that the National 12 would be awsome with a spinnaker...has anyone ever tried to sail a 12 with a spinnaker and why can't we have one??....class rules I guess, and the fact we'd beat the S**t out of all those Merlins.  I'd give it a go on our Crusader but I'm scared of breaking the mast!!

Janey

[icecreamman]

A few years ago someone did try an asymetric on a Chapter, I cannot remember who or even when. All I do recall is that it was around the time that asymetrics became vogue and that it was set from the hounds area. Things did not go that well, but was that due to a 12 being great without a kite or did the kite need to be larger....... Someone out there is bound to know more than me.
Even further in the past John Royce stuck his Fireball rig on his Tiger and sailed it for a laugh at Trent Valley, in which race I have no idea, but do remember seeing pictures in Y&Y. Now that would have been something to see

 

[MikeDay]

[Lukepiewalker]

Was it not Nigel Waller in Ella Grunge.... I could be horribly wrong....

[rick perkins]

[quote by=Mike_Day link=Blah.cgi?b=Cool,m=1163667720,s=21 date=1163784018]
I wonder why we keep on talking about this?  12s downwind in a blow are exciting and hard enough to control anyway.  They're wonderful boats generally to sail in any conditions.  For the additional thrill we'd have with a kite in the narrow wind band of marginal planing, we'd lose in all kinds of other areas, and I reckon the Class would disappear within a generation.

Mike D
N3496[/quote]

I guess the success of the RS200 and it's impact on the N12 fleet makes people think about the kite.

We sailed the RS200 for 3 years on the circuit and when you do a winward leeward all the time quite a lot of the time you are soaking low for VMG as the kite is not big enough to get the apparent wind forward like on the Musto so much of the downwind the crew is sitting in.

With the N12 you can reach and I guess you race courses with reaches which make for a nice bit of entertainment.

One of the reasons we brought the N12 was the lack of kite as we will have limited (no) practice time ...

Rick

[Mikey C]

The Kite from Mike Shallows experiment ended up as the jib/kite swap on Ella Grunge...

Decent (400 sized at least) Kite and a loss of lead would be massively fun. I would have one!

[JimC (Guest)]

[quote by=tedcordall link=Blah.cgi?b=Cool,m=1163667720,s=9 date=1163704394]
- a sailing dinghy light and powerful enough to plane upwind in the majority of wind conditions?
... n12 wouldn't.[/quote]

Do Nationals not plane upwind then? There are Cherub designs, notably the Bistro, which will plane upwind before the crew is properly on the wire, and you'd think the N12 has that amount of righting moment and more being so much wider. But maybe an N12 that sort of shape would be a disaster in all sub planing conditions.

[Mikey C]

They do plane, but you need at least 21 stone in to get it to work! And it doesnt work in the majority of wind conditions either, force 4 plus.

My short lived experience of sailing with Mr Simpson in my old boat in the harbour race at Weymouth saw this. We easily had the front foot 1/2 of the boat out of the water upwind - werent pointing but going considerably quicker than everyone around us. I think we got to the windward mark 3rd, just behind my old man who was presumably doing the same thing as he has even more pies... He cocked up the jibe, we didnt and then Mark fell out the boat trying to avoid him!

A reduction in weight would help bring this down the condition range a bit and for lighter people to do it too...  

[RogerBrisley]

Ted

Always thought skiffs were a big load of bollocks!

Roger

[tedcordall]

Though it may be an illusion caused by skin tight lycra!