PY numbers for older boats

[philipcosson]

I'm just raising the PY numbers with my club sailing committee. Is it true to say that the numbers published in the handbook (p10) have all been official RYA PY numbers for the class?

sail numbers 0001-1599,     years 1936-1958,     PY1170
sail numbers 1600-2511,     years 1958-1970,     PY1145
sail numbers 2512-3140, years 1970-1980,     PY1130
sail numbers 3141-3271, years 1981-1987,     PY1115
sail numbers 3272-3410, years 1988-1994,     PY1104
sail numbers 3411+,       years 1995+,             PY1093

I think it makes a more compelling case if they were the actual RYA numbers at the time of manufacture.

I do see their difficulty however - when significant modification could have taken place in the intervening years. I personally would not look fo a different number for my boat if I had uprated with carbon spars and foils...  There is also a problem if you have volunteer race officers, having effectively several differnet "classess" of N12 in their computer.

Has anyone had these discussions, what was the outcome?

Regards

Philip

N3253


Cheers

Philip

[philipcosson]

First response from a member of tha sailing committee...

<quote>

"As I see it the N12 PY is based on the clubs' PY returns for the all N12 fleets across the country and is therefore made up of results for all boats, old and new. I suspect the 'true' new boat handicap is therefore sub-1093, and old boats higher than 1093, leading to an 'average' of 1093. For the N12 class to say that 1093 is good only for new boats could be construed as being  somewhat dodgy ;-)

I would therefore vote to keep it as a single number, in the same way other classes, development or not, have to contend with. We all know that it is possible to 'cheque-book sail' to some extent (otherwise why would we buy new sails/boats?) in order to remain competitive. If I bought an old IC, another development class for example, I wouldn't expect to be treated with a more favourable handicap than the new boats."

</quote>

[RogerBrisley]

Hi Philip,

Trust the refit is going well and hope to see you up the dam when the ice has melted!

When you refer to sailing comittee do you mean the Class or SDSC?  Ian Holden and I have spoken re handicaps and he is aware of the handicaps for more aged boats.  I 'm quite content to leave the application of different handicaps to him,  the principal matter being the weight differential between new and old boats.

Philip David has a boat like yours and goes extremely quickly.  as also Neil McInnes. I think perhaps the difference in results between older boats is  the helm (and crew) and perhaps the condition of the sail ie matters outside the handicap system?

Ian (our Race commitee man) is understandably reluctant to inflict multiple (virtually personal ) handicaps on the race office.  In my view we should have fast /slow cutoff at N3411 ie Ian and MarkSimpson sail off 1093 the rest of us off 1104.  But perhaps we might achieve class status this year and just sail level pegging.

Dunno,  Ideas?

Rog 8)er

Roger

[Alex D]

bump for RLSC

[Jon_P]

I had no problem in resolving in at our club.  We have different PY's for the different 12s, works fine.

I think it is really important otherwise people get really frustrated when they get better and finish lower than they should.  

It's obviously a little open to abuse and a little discretion needs to be used in club fleets.

Jon

[RogerBrisley]

Scaling Dam SC now accept "old" and "new" as separate handicaps split at the point in my earlier posting.  All that's missing is 12's getting out there! !

See you all early next year?

Roger

[RLSC]

Thanks for the Bump Alex.

This is useful info.

Cheers

ed