vote for as many as you like (don't mix yes/no/dk)

[Guess (Guest)]

Here is a little poll to see if there is any apetite for any of these possibilities to be taken forward and discussed more seriously.

You can vote for as many as you like, but don't mix your yes's, no's, and don't know's

The masked pollster

[Mikey C]

you forgot weight reduction, reshape existing sailplan, full battens, rotating rig...

[Mikey C]

and a daggerboard

[philipcosson]

Hi Mike,

Can you explain the effect each of these might have? Which could rehabilitate the older 3000-3400 boats in club racing terms without breaking the bank? Would a full battened main be an advantage in all condiions?

Optional extras without changing the format of Burton/Gill is likely to protect most peoples curent investment. It could also give aardvark some interesting work on devising retro fit kits.

The idea is not to change the Burton rules - but get more N12's sailing at their clubs and this giving the whole class more of a profile.

Philip
N3253

[Jane Wade]

Whilst I am not one I do object to the use of the term ' yoof' - it is youth.  Don't dumb down this important part of the class.

Jane Wade

[Mikey C]

I'm not really suggesting any of these as serious options... Was trying to imply that a Poll is probably not the best way of working these things out as there are always missing options.

The problem with retro fit kits, is that every boat is different and a kit would not be a standard item...

Weight reduction would make the boat plane earlier and possibly upwind, along with making the boat more fun to sail.
Reshape existing sailplan will give us a more efficient use of the same sail area. Current 12 rig is just a lighter version of a 70's rig, we just know how to use them better.
Full battens would make the rig more responsive and depower better
rotating rig, less drag
daggerboard, less weight carried in water, easier to make foils, reduce board area in a breeze (centerboards do not do this)

Cheers

Mike

[Tony (Guest)]

We are currently considering a fairly small change to the sail plan (re: cross widths). Should we not throw in the option of abandoning cross widths and batten rules completely? Letting the sail makers develop the most efficient sail for our current rig, I guess this may lead to some mast development as well. Am I right in thinking that this would also be a return to the original 12 rule set?

This would: Make our boats quicker, development without the need for a new boat, minimal expense as most people change sails every 1 to 3 years. Make our boats look more up-to-date (Important factor for attracting new members). Not sure but may also make boats more competitive to a wider range of crew weights?

I sat at the 70th Dinner and it was quite clear that if the class had not developed there would probably not have been a 70th to celebrate.

Tony

N3428

[angus]

i DON'T WANT TO SOUND STEWPID who put the cap lock on but if we start putting bigger rig and asymetrics on are we not just reinventing the cherub, and the more we tamper with the rules the more out classed the older boats are going to get.
Slightly different subject our yoof wants an rs 200 do you think if I stuck a cherub rig on our china doll it would shut him up.

[pollster (Guest)]

Cherub dinghy, one word - trapeze. In fact two of them...

The suggestions are to increase competitive (club racing) crew weight. Cherubs are even more focused on low crew weights.

The N12 is surely focused on those who want to sail IN a boat, not on a trapeze. The boat can also sail on rivers, lakes and sea, often with child crews.

a N12 with an asymetric will not resemble a cherub... the main sail on a cherub is 15msq!

Again - all these suggestions could be implemented WITHOUT changing the rules for burton week/gill series.

[icecreamman]

I have to disagree with pollster on the fact that sticking an asymetric on a 12 will allow it to be sailed on a river. By doing this yes we will make the boat more exciting, but put the dampers on sailing it on a river even more. Could you imagine zig zagging down the River Trent or Ouse with your kite up when it would be just as productive to goosewing and sail in a straight line. Putting an asymetric on the 12 may work for anyone sailing on open water no matter whether they sail an AC or a DB, but will all butl kill the vintage section as it would make it imperative for everyone to have a kite.
I have not given it too much thought on some of the other points, but please lets not go down the aysmetric route, it was thought about a few years ago and given up as a bad job

[Martin]

[pollster (Guest)]

Has anyone seen the word "optional" on this thread? Why restrict others because of your situation? This is the point of the proposals - to make the class attractive due to it's FLEXIBILITY. The RS fraternity are tied to a one design rigid system, why not maximise the advantage N12's have in their development status?

[PeterSturdgess]

[pollster (Guest)]

what do the burton weekers think?

[Jimbo41]