why the 12?

[jon (Guest)]

Hi all,
I am looking for a new boat, I was tempted with the RS200 but am intrigued with the 12. I thought you guys might have some interested opinions.  I sale on a pond, how do the 12s do in handicap racing as i would probably be forced to do?

[THG]

What size of pond?  I sail at a small ish gravel pit (South Cerney) - generally beat the ass'y types both on water and on h'cap (even those much faster) - maybe our fleet isn't that top!

We have one Laser guy (good) thats just started out in RS200 - seem to be keeping up on beats, off wind we go direct and often no change in the distance between us - IF they can go direct with kite on good reach they can draw ahead - overall I would say the N12 is far more suited to these types of water than the RS200 (or other Assy generally).

The Albacores & Solos at our Club seem to do best overall 'traditional classes'.

Kean
3339 (Crusader)

[David Wilkins (Guest)]

Jon,

I sail on a 60 acre lake  - tend to do very well on handicap. We don't have any asymetrics on the lake as it really isn't suited to them. We do enjoy sailing past the RS200's when we race at the same time as them at one of the Salcombe open meetings where they struggle with the shifty inland type winds.

I'm sure that you would find a 12 much more responsive and interesting to sail and far better suited to your type of water. If you're not yet swayed go to the Try a 12 bit of the website and we'll arrange for that.

Cheers


David

[Jimbo41]

Jon, I can only confirm what David and Keen have said.

Where I sail it's particularly shifty being relatively close to the Alps and we also get quite a lot of cyclonic weather. I sail a Tigress although not for long, (around a year). She's 26 years old, but a super type of boat for an inland stretch of water. You don't necessarily have to have a spanking new, carbon composite double bottomed boat to have fun and leave some other smart-alecs more-or-less gobsmaked (even without a spinachmaker....)  

Don't expect instant results though. The 12 is highly responsive to rig changes of outwardly minor nature and - as the latest DVD shows - is quite difficult to handle at first.

Cheers and good hunting!

Jim N3130

[jon (Guest)]

Cheers for the replies both,  what is the py?
Pond is not tiny i sale my vareo with kite on it but it is far from ideal as most other boats dont have a kite so course is set up for lasers etc
I think i will sort out a sail in one.  
Talking about what type, I would definately want a wooden deck as i think they look beautiful, and the curvier shapes, but would also ideally want a grp or modern  hull for less maintenance.  Do they exist if so how much am I looking at for a club competive boat?  i am not looking at winning the nationals, just club comptetive.  thanks

[Kevin]

Well, just to be different, I sail on the sea. We generally do well on handicap against the likes of people who come in the top 3 at the Finn world masters, Phantom nationals, etc and usually beat the Albacores and Lasers on the water. Against the new asymetric classes and catamarans it really does depend on the weather and the course when there is nothing anyone can do if the boat is wrong for the weather, e.g. on a tight reach in a breeze we overtake RS400's but on a broad reach they leave us standing.

As to why a 12, aside from the challenge of sailing a boat that is far more responsive and fun than the RS200 (I owned one for 2 years), we are just such a friendly bunch of people that you will miss out if you go elsewhere.

Hope that helps.
Kevin

[philipcosson]

Hi Jon,

My boat is exactly as you describe - wooden decks and a GRP hull. It is a Baggy Trousers - number N3253 - there were 6 made I think. 1984 vintage. There were some crusaders made like this I believe... then there are the fully GRP design 8's

We have recently negotiated a better handicap at my club for single floor boats - which may help in handicap racing. it's 1104 (pre N3410)

Mine is not down to weight - but Phil Davids N3217 is identical hull and he has it down to weight with carbon mast and spaceframe. My dad sanded it down last winter and we put on sikkens ceetol - it looks pretty good and did not take lots of coats.

The main reason I'm here and not in the RS200 is the lack of a spinnaker. There are enough variables to consider on inland water without that.

I really wanted to learn to sail well, and I figure a responsive boat will give me more feedback. A boat that is very susceptable to fore/aft trim and rig settings will teach me whats important.

I also needed to maximise my boat for the money - when you consider the cost of an RS200 - you will see that you can get a much better second hand deal in the development class - and have enough money left over for some new sails possibly?

Hope you join the class

Philip
N3253

[angus]

[Roly Mo]

Where do you live/sail?  I'm sure that someone would be happy to provide a trial sail somewhere close by.

Bernard
N3447/N2938

[Barry]

I'd agree with all of the above. We are new to 12's this year - with no 12 history. We sail on a small pond with a good handicap of 1104 (slower than a Wayfarer).

The N12 is much admired,  great fun and such a rewarding boat to sail - or at least will be when we get it right.

The RS200 is a good boat - even through the kite only comes up properly from one side. On a marginal planing reach the RS200 with kite up will get way - elsewhere it's seems about even.

Watch out for the Ents and Solos though!

Having just got Ratchet there are some super bargains and so much boat can be had for small money.

Barry
N3364

[Jimbo42]

[bowman (Guest)]

[jon (Guest)]

Buy a more competitive boat?!  
I was thinking of more like 1000-2000.  Do I get much more for my money? or is it not worth spending that  without going all out?
plus that would allow me to keep my vareo that I am now in love with!

I am based in Notts, there is a 12 at my club but dont really know the chap, will talk to him and see if he offers!!

[THG]

[jon (Guest)]

sorry guys, probably a stupid question but AC?