Best Sea Design (double skin)

[popeye]

Hi all
I am interested in the 12 and have been for many years now. I sail in the channel and wanted your advice on which design of 12 is best suited to sea sailing out of the double bottom boats.
helm/crew = 20 1/2 stone
All advice would be gratefull and Iam sorry if this question been asked many times before.
Cheers Popeye

[Jane Wade]

You would be absolutely fine with any of the double bottom designs.  They are all equally competitive.  My personal reservation would be around the Numinous design as it is probably the liveliest but then it is also a Championship winner!
Where are you sailing?  Love a bit of sea sailing - maybe we could have an open meeting there?
 
Jane Crew N3512

[sam293]

also what is your budget?
are you looking new or second hand?

[popeye]

Very good secondhand or new, may evan build myself to be honist.

[sam293]

well tom stewart's boats up for £7,200 at the moment, which has very little use, and many many wins at opens etc

[andymck]

Popeye
If you want to go the new route, you have a few optiions, Rondar have put together a good looking package with the paradigm 2, which has shown good potential over the last 2 years, with a Burton Cup win. For a Foolish, I would either suggest Toms boat, or taliking to Aardvark who have a mould, unless you can find several like minded people, Ovingtons unlikely to build you a single hull. Aardvark have a few other options too. The Foolish is probably still the best all round boat at the moment that has been built in significant numbers. The Numinous mould is out there to be used, but it would either mean a self build, or finding a builder. The design we are all talking about at the moment is the Dead CAt Bounce, the prototype has been extremely quick with its foiled rudder, and trim tabbed centre board. The mould is on the isle of white, but a hull from composite craft is very pricey. Tom at P&B is looking to put a package together, if he can get the mould, I believe there is currently one being moulded at CC at the moment, so a few of us are waiting to see which way to jump. Having sailed the DCB on a river in almost no wind, i would suggest it is best suited to open water, but it may have been my lack of skill. The one thing to consider is the winged rudder, This will certainly require a change of car for me unless i can come up with a transport box for the thing, though roof down may be the best way to go.
My suggestion would be a foolish as your first point of call, get used to it, then consider something a bit more radical later. I am still not sure I made the right choice in selling mine, though the guy who bought it tells me it was a great decision.

Andy Mck
ex 2923, 2947, 3162 and 3466
soon 35??

[popeye]

Thanks for that Andy, that was the advice i was after. I am in no hurry and will continue to moniter the designs.
Will have to come take a look sometime soon at one of the events to see all in action.
 
Cheers Popeye

[Jeremy C]

You couldn't do better than come to the 12 inlands next weekend (7+8 november) at Northampton SC. All the designs will be there and you could have a good chat with their owners.
 
Jeremy
Feeling Foolish 3444

[popeye]

unfortunatly I wont be able to make it next weekend. Will try get to an event at some point tho.
 
Popeye

[Michael]

The Dead Bounce Design form Jo Richards certainly seems to be a good sea boat with a v impressive record at Burton Week http://www.burtonweek.org/.  Composite Craft are builsing one at the moment for me. Its complex to build and they are using the best materials available.  You can follow progress on http://deadcatbouncenational12.blogspot.com/

[popeye]

Thanks for that Michael I will keep an eye on your blog.
What is it about the dead cat bounce that differs it to the other many designs? Surely its difficult to judge different designs because everyones skills vary sailing the designs.  

[beachedblastit]

Popeye
If I may make a suggestion, It does not matter which of the latest "hot" designs you go for, as with anything, success is measured by the amount of time you can spend doing it, multiplied by talent, divided by the index of the cost (time x talent /[£]) and you may have spent years looking at 12's, but when you get in one you may hate it.
My advice would be buy second hand, they are all tried and tested and much cheaper, there are plenty on the 'For Sale' part of the site, play with it for a couple of years, join the NTOA, go to events, talk to people and try things out and then you will know what you want.
Good luck and good hunting.

[popeye]

Yes i agree. My concern is that if i buy an old design how easy is it going to be to re-sell and at handicap racing will it be able to sail off its py. So i want to make the best cost effective decision. I have sailed 12s in the past and know the score.
Popeye

[Jane Wade]

You really cannot go far wrong with a P&B Feeling Foolish.  They hold their value and with consistent results in all conditions and types of water you can feel confident.
There should be a few on the market soon as well. 
Jane
Crew 3512 Alpha Male 

[Mystic Meg (Guest)]

No one knows if the DCB is a genuinely quick all-rounder yet, or if Joe’s just too good for us all.
No one knows if foils make existing designs go quicker, but many will argue the point to death; especially on the internet.
No one knows which existing designs may take foils better than another.
 
I’d say we’re all as confused as you because the last significant development in the class was in the early 80s.
 
If you want to go sailing in the next 18 months I’d pick up a reasonably priced example of any of the double bottom designs.  They’re all competitive on the sea and that option gets you sailing and in a much better position to judge developments for yourself.  Handicap corrections move so slowly you’re likely be very competitive for at least the next few years.
 
These boats are heavily depreciated already and you’re unlikely to loose much.  You could probably strip the kit for your new rocket ship in 2 years time when you’ve worked out what you want and make a profit on the deal.