Best Sea Design (double skin)

[Antony (Guest)]

MM - whoever you are:
I do know the answer to a lot of these questions with a high degree of confidence.
I also remember a period of rapid development in the class in the late 1990s.
That said, the advice to buy a decent 2nd hand Foolish or Chapter (if on the sea) or Numinous (if not too heavy) is sound.
Antony
N3348

[popeye]

Can someone tell me how the Big issue 2 differs to the Big issue. What have most standerd Big issues undergone to become Big issue 2's.
 
Regards Popeye (Alistair)

[Jeremy C]

I don't think much changed beneath the waterline, but the big issue 2 had more flared gunwhales running almost parrallel from shroud points to stern to allow greater hiking power. The Paradox was the most extreme version of this idea with no curve at all to the gunwhales.

[popeye]

Also how do 12's benifit from a lowerd foredeck like the likes of carbon paw print surely this is only going to make pitchpoles become more likely! (amazing looking boat tho, love it in lime green!)
Hope you okk dont mind me asking lots of questions???

[Mikey C (Guest)]

They don't really benefit from having the lowered foredeck (more styling related), but believe it or not they make pitchpoles easier to sail out of as the foredeck doesn't push the boat further down.
The BI2'2 like Chunky Monkey were different at deck level, but they were also finer through the midsections underwater but with more buoyancy in the ends. I had a bit of success in the The Big Issue 1 (Aardvark Issues and Radical Edward) but feel the BI2 was quicker through the few times I sailed my old boy's boats (Boatyard Dog and Carbon Pawprint) although I dont think it was ever really sailed to its potential. Best boat in big breeze ever - can be pushed really hard offwind and will plane upwind with 21 stone in it...


Cheers
Cookie, Builder of most Big Issues!

[white offspring number 2]

Best boat in big breeze ever - can be pushed really hard offwind and will plane upwind with 21 stone in it...


Cheers
Cookie, Builder of most Big Issues!

S'funny, I've never seen any 12 plane upwind when significantly close-hauled. Beam reaching maybe, but upwind and with 21 stone..... If you are planing upwind, you'd be really significantly reducing your VMG. IMO you're better off pointing higher in a 12.
Jim.

[Mikey C (Guest)]

Well, I never sailed heavy enough myself, but the race I crewed for Mark Simpson at Burton week in Weymouth last time we were pointing significantly lower than anyone else but going so much faster that it didnt matter... It has to be windy to work, and you need the weight but it worked.

Cheers

Mike

[popeye]

are the older boats worth upgrading as the 12 changes slowly, or is it worth sailing with what you got and saving for one of the latest designs?

[sam293]

a lot of people are trying to add t foils trim tab boards etc to differnt designs, numinous and the final chapter are well suited to this, particularly the chapter,
if anyone could post some hull profile images can show why.

[GregPitt]

The chapter would be well suited to a T-foil because of the amount of rocker towards the transom. This gives a good rising stream of water for a foil to direct just below the water line. It is someting I have thought about doing on my boat but have not got round to it yet!!
My chapter is however up for sale if anyone is interested! Would be a great boat for sailing on the sea with or without a T-foil! A chapter is a good option with Waymouth coming up next year.

Greg N3473

[Tim L (Guest)]

are the older boats worth upgrading as the 12 changes slowly, or is it worth sailing with what you got and saving for one of the latest designs?

Definitely - carbon mast and decent sails to fit will speed up an older boat quite significantly.  In marginal planing you'll still struggle against newer/lighter/stiffer boats but in sub planing and in proper breeze you'll find it a lot quicker and easier to sail (with only half the weight waving around in the sky...)
Tim
ex-N3295 (much upgraded...)

[popeye]

Yer sorry I didnt quite mean that dated, as in still ally masts and booms. I mean at what age of boat do you leave as is, and upgrade to a newer much stiffer design before losing loads of money when you do want to sell it.

[John Meadowcroft]

This is the entire joy of the N12 class to me - you will not get consensus!
The Gill Series has just been won by a boat built in 1998 (Feeling Foolish design).  The vast majority of double bottomed boats remain stiff and on minimum weight.
I think that the Paradigm 2 is the answer - that is why I have one.  That said I also think that Dead Cat Bounce arriving this year has posed a lot of questions which the serious N12 sailor needs to answer!
The best way to lose lots of money on any dinghy is not to use it, or not maintain it.  If you buy new you pay a premium for being able to spec the boat including a colour that may not be someone elses preference.  My observation in the N12 class is that those who get the most value from their investments choose a conservative design and hold onto them for longest.

[Kevin]

That all depends on how you measure "value". Is it purely the residual money value when it eventually comes to selling the boat; is it the number of clubs races won in it, or the number of open events, or even the number of national championships (on this last basis most of us will have derived little "value" from our investments); is it more subjective such as most bang for your bucks in terms of enjoyment; or is it simply the number of women who come and talk to you just because they LOVE the look of a pink boat?
 
Kevin

[Chris Troth]

I'd go along with Kevin's last point!