Is a 12 for us?

[Wodman]

Hi All,
 got some questions so I thought I'd come straight to the experts!

I'm an Ex-Cherub and Fur-ball sailor who has spent most of last 5-6 years teaching Scouts to sail. Borrowed an RS Vision to race at Brightlingsea SC Pyefleet week and this has re-ignited those competitive urges. Raced all week against JerryG (I assume) in N3500 and my wife, who wants to do more serious sailing with me is very taken with the 12. This leads me to ask a) is 22-23 stone to heavy to compete and b) would a Baggy carry that weight?

Appears that there are a couple of good Baggys for sale around my budget so that's why I'm asking...

Thanks in anticipation.

Ps. We sail mostly at Ardleigh Reservoir, with occaisional forays to Brightlingsea.

[Martin]

Having owned both Cherubs and Fireballs in the past I can confirm you would not be dissapointed with a Nat 12. Some will say that the 12 is weigh sensitive and if it is true we are probably on the heavy side ourselves but it certainly doesn't impact on our enjoyment or competitiveness at Club level.
If your budget runs to the Baggys on sale at the moment, and if it is still available I would also be tempted to look at Magic Pudding which is currently advertised.  Same sort of money and you get a double bottom thrown in.
Happy hunting:)
 

[GC]

I would also consider the Final chapter.
This carries weight better than most and although a bit more expensive it is a double bottom with carbon boom. It is also not very far to go and have a look.
Gerald
3411 & 3280 

[Wobbly (Guest)]

Hi We were in a similar position to yourselves this time last year and would really  recommend a 12. We are a husband and wife crew of similar weight and helm is quite tall so were were anxious about fitting in a 12. We went for a Paradigm 2 which is a new design and more pricey than a baggy but has lots of room for the crew and helm. We have been incredibly well supported and welcomed by the 12 community with advice on every aspect being generously provided via this website and on the beach. Despite having sailed for years we both are learning a lot of new techniques through the 12 as there is room for tweaking. It's our first season and we are clearly not up with the leaders (as Olly reminds us!)  but we are certainly getting some good competitive racing in the pack. The on line guides to sailing and rigging are brilliant. It's a class with more community and support than I have come across before, it like joining a club.

[David Wilkins (Guest)]

I'm sure a 12 will suit you well - brilliant boats. I sailed them for 35 years or so and wish I had the time do do so still. At that weight a baggy may not be best for you though  - I would recommend a Final Chapter too - though they can stick a bit in the light stuff.
Cheers
David
ex 925,2433,2730,2825,3139,3345,3405,3481
(really must find my paswword again!)

[FuzzyDuck]

No No No you want a dekeeled Crusader just like the one I am going to put up for sale today! It was very happy with our 25stones in it and even managed some top 30 places at the Nationals this year. Let me know if you are interested and i can send pictures.
Simon
soon to be ex 3236 (i hope)

[Wodman]

Thanks everyone for all the advice - after careful analysis of all of the suggestions that we are probably a bit heavy for a Baggy, we've gone and bought one anyway. Rembering that that I was told that we were the wrong weight for Cherubs and Fireballs and that it never seemed to be a major issue I'm sure that we'll cope. We've bought N3217 so I think the boats going to faster than the crew for some time anyway! See you on the water... Richard.

[John Meadowcroft]

Congratulations on your purchase! 

[GC]

Other than baggys not being ideal for carrying weight you have just purchased the best value boat on the market. You should have a lot of fun with it.
Welcome to the class and to the Baggy owners club
Gerald (baggy 3411 and crusader 3280)  

[PJD]

More congratulations on your purchase...clearly the best value 12 on the market last week! I'm sure you'll love Wendy Windblows and I hope you have great success in her. I'm also pleased you didn't listen to the advice on other designs!
Glad you got home safely, Philip, N2545, N3499 (ex N3217)

[Chadders]

Congratulations a great choice of Baggy look forward to seeing you sailing her and welcome to the twelve fleet. Howard AKA Chadders (  AKA Chairman)

[Jeremy C]

Welcome to the classs. you won't regret it... such fantastic boats to sail!

[Guest (Guest)]

In an earlier post Fuzzyduck mentioned dekeeling a Crusader.  Could I enquire whether this means removing the two bilge keels and what effect that has on performance and handling.
Can you please enlighten me.
N3247 (Crusader)

[FuzzyDuck]

I am sure someone more educated than me will expand further, but taking off the bilge keel is only the first (but easy) step. They are no longer required in the rules, only create turbulance and drag so plane them off smooth. Just watch for the screws the builder may have used.
On 3236 they have gone all the way and removed the keel in the centre of the boat, this makes the bottom of the boat smooth. I know you have to be very carefull on this as Gerry did not use a hog at the rear of the boat. So plane it off completely and you may have problems.
What difference does it make? Having sailed both, I know the de keeled boat seems faster down wind and tacks faster as well as the obvious reduction in wetted area and turbulance (and a small amount of weight).
I have pictures on my laptop and will post later.
Simon

[Roly Mo]

Your boat was built by Gerry - I'd talk to him as a starting point as he will know what construction methods were used and what is feasible.
RM