Old 12 Restoration

[BRS]

Hi
 
I've just bought 2262 off of Ebay. I've got her drying out in the garage at the moment. From an initial inspection I would say that the hull looks pretty sound. However, the fore deck and side decking is all shot and the outer and inner gunwales have delaminated.
Not being a woodworking wizard I'm looking for a few tips. Primarily;
1. What wood veneer should I be looking for on the marine ply for the decks. I know there are may hardwoods available.
2. Can the inner gunwales be stripped, reglued and reused?
The boat has a couple of old bouyancy tanks at the back, they look pretty rubbish and I was going to knock them out and fit bags, would it be acceptable to fit bags, i guess about 4 would be required and is it withing taste to fit a thwart of some sort at the back for sitting on with the bags beneath.
Any advice and guidance would be gratefully accepted.
Cheers
John 

[Jon711 (Guest)]

Where abouts are you, as a time served boatbuilder, I may be able to help - but would need to see tha damage to advise...
Failing all else, post the same question on www.cvrda.org . You may get more opinions thanyou know what to dealwith!!!
Jon (Having problems with typing crushed my fingers at work recently)

[BRS]

Hi
Thanks Jon, I'm in Scotland, near Stirling. I will have a look at that link. Cheers
 

[GarryR]

Yep - plenty of advice regarding decks.  My advice having done patching and re-decking, is to get the old decks off, let the hull dry out  and use Robbins Elite ply.  Use epoxy and do the job right first time - it will save a load of hassle leter on when a temporary fix needs to be redone.  See below for a re-deck of a Merlin built in 1951.  I have done 2 merlins and a Firefly.
http://www.cvrda.org/coppermine/thumbnails.php?album=17
 

[Tim Gatti]

Welcome to the world of old boat renovation - the Starfish is a beautiful design and she will be a delightful boat to sail when she is back on the water. From the ebay photos of N2262 I would say you have a tremendous amount of work ahead of you but with effort and patience the old wooden 12's can be made to look (almost) like new. (See renovation pics of N3109 in the online Boat Database as an example and N2306 a Starfish - Sticky Fingers recently brought back from the dead)

'Wytchway' has clearly been neglected and left out to suffer the elements for some considerable time.  Given her age and condition you therefore need to treat every piece of timber and every glued joint as a potential problem. The Cascamite/Aerolite type of glues she will have been built with have a limited life and where you can't reglue joints - say around knees and bulkheads, you may want to consider strengthening them with epoxy fillets. Whatever you do you will have to get back to sound, bare wood throughout the boat.

I'd agree with Garry about the decking - it looks too far gone to be able to sand off the water damaged and sun bleached top veneer.  It's therefore quicker to just remove the old decks, gunwhales etc completely and replace with new Robbins marine ply.  They can also supply the hardwood for your gunwhales, inwhales etc - the originals look too far gone to renovate and they have to come off anyway in order to facilitate the re-decking.
The built-in tanks look ugly and are probably no longer airtight.  As you suggest, I would remove them and replace with buoyancy bags. 2 @ 36" x 12" should be sufficient - one each side.  The side decks are all you need - adding inboard benches at the stern is only going to increase the hull weight and they will dig into your calves when you sit out using the toe straps.
You have a lot of hard work ahead of you and it's important that she dries out thoroughly before you do anything toward putting her back together.  Check the state of the planking - sometimes the core veneers can rot out through water incursion and you only get to know about it when the surface veneer starts to 'wrinkle' . Areas can be cut out and replaced with new ply using scarfed joints - but you'll need somewhere warm and dry to do all this. See the work carried out on N2255 in the Boat Database for one approach to this problem.
The centre board case where it passes through the hog and keel is another suspect area.  If water has been allowed to gather in the bottom of the boat it can soften these components and cause rot and softening of the timbers.  As well as prodding these areas inside the boat with a sharp pointer to identify 'soft spots', turn the boat upside down, remove the centre board, keel band and gasket (if it still has one) and check out the keel, the garboard (the first plank of the hull abutting the keel) and the inside the centreboard case.  If it's all solid then count yourself very lucky.
Finally, the forward buoyancy tank really does need to be airtight so once you have the foredeck off it's worth running an epoxy fillet inside and out between the bulkhead and the hull - again you will need to remove any old surface coatings and get back to sound bare wood before you do this,  Also check the state of the hog forward of the bulkhead - any water that may have settled in the tank could over time have damaged the wood.  Rot can then work along the grain in the joint between the hog and the keel - sometimes allowing water to get into the front tank by capillary action along the faulty joint from the main body of the hull.
You may certainly need some input from a 'wood-working wizard' to help you with some of these jobs but the end result will be worth it - just do not underestimate the time involved.
Good luck.
Tim

[sticky fingers (Guest)]

John. As the owner if 2306 all of tim's advice is sound. I bought mine in august last year and she hit the water in may this year. I would really suggest avoiding the temptation of doing a quick job, it will only cause lots of trouble later on. !y relacing the decks it gives you a chance to look at the planks and hog in the front tank they can be a source of rot. Also as suggested the centreboard case can allow water to travel to the front tank along the hog.

Whatever you do it is well worth the effort and during those days of doubt always think of when it will hit the water again the feelinhg is majic!!!!  

Martin

[BRS]

Hi Tim & Martin
 
Many thanks for the guidance. I have resigned myself to pulling off the decking, doesn't seem like too big a job. The front tank seems ok on an initial inspection and has a bag in it which I will need to pull out. As I said, the hull looks pretty ok, I believe that the boat has only spent one winter sitting out, uncovered unfortunatley, and was in good condition prior to that. I would say that the boat has been restored before, kept dry somewhere but seems to have only one or maybe two coats of varnish on the inside. This has mostly flaked off. I'm going to leave her to dry put for a couple of weeks in my garage, I'm pretty lucky that I have a big 2 1/2 bay garage so have plently of space. Just got my Enterprise (a nice wooden one) and my sons Topper up to the sailing club last weekend, replaced instantly by this! My wife is delighted.
I'll be honest, pulling things apart is not a problem, cutting decking shouldnt be a problem, sanding and varnishing are second nature, scarfing - mmmm starting to get lost now. I have had a look on the CVRDA and the magic word in hull prep seems to be Walnut Blasting, sounds a lot easier than sanding, so if anyone knows of a media blaster in Scotland who does boats please let me know.
There does seem to be one split plank at the back near the transome. Looks like a heavy heel has split it. I'm hoping this can be bonded/sealed rather than even think about replacing but again I'm open to any advice.
 
John

[Chadders]

Seems to me the advice above is all spot on and from folk have done it all before so you wont go far wrong.  2262 sailed for many years at Yeadon and I think I have an old slide of her being bouyancy tested, it shows the original layout so I will sort it and email it to you.  The sailing clothing gives an idea of when it was taken which I think was late 60s or very early seventies.  Howard Chadwick aka Chadders