Sails for metal masts

[Mark Barron]

Hello,
 
a bit new here, but have just purchased 3250, which has a Super Spars mast and a very tired set of P&B sails. Hoping to sail her at Loch Tummel with my daughter, in between other things, and will need some new sails at some point, not likely to be looking for perfect set up, but don't want something that doesn't fit/work at all.
If was after a new, or newer set, would I be able to buy them off the shelf, or is the luff curve for the carbon masts different?
On the same vein, would a good second hand suit from a newer boat be worth the money?, or would I need a set specifically for a metal mast.
Not desperate for them now, as daughter is only one and a half!, but would like some advice.
Mark
 

[Alex D]

I had some made up by Kevan at Alverbanks for an old Holt Allen alloy mast last season. This involved measuring the mast deflection at various points after hanging a 20Kg weight from the spreaders with the mast supported horizontally at both ends. I was really pleased with the result.
 I suspect the winter sales will be starting soon .

[GregPitt]

I work as a sailmaker in scotland and am currently doing a lot of development on national 12 sails as I have just bough one. To answer your question, yes the luff curve of a metal mast is different to a carbon one. This combined with your crew weight and what spec of sail you are after will enable a sailmaker to design the perfect sail for you! As for good second hand sails you will have to be carefull where they came from, Like you said you could end up with something that doesn't suit your mast, boat or what sailing you like to do.
Hope this helps a little. Look forward to seeing you sailing in scotland.
Greg N3473 

[Tim Gatti]

Hi Mark - looks like Angus held onto the nearly-new, second hand sails he used to use on Killer Custard then!(from N3457). As previous posts have confirmed, metal and carbon spars have very different bend characteristics so if you do go for a better second-hand set go for one that's been used on an aluminium spar - a lot of the later ones will be Superspar anyway.  In the end it depends how much money you want to spend - you could pick up a good suit of 2nd hand sails for £150-200'ish which would do a perfectly good job, or you could buy a new set cut for your mast characteristics and crew weight at probably more than three times that amount, depending on materials chosen and availability of sasonal discounts. Given the value of the boat I'd probably go down the second-hand route, get the boat set-up sorted and get out and do some sailing. Good luck! Tim

[tonyelgar]

Is there any restriction on which sailmakers you can use? I am in a similar position having just bought a bagy trousers witha tin mast and it will be a while till i can afford to change it! However a new set of sails will need to be on the horizon soon, but i know a very good local chap i may decide to support.
Tony
 
N3255

[Tim Gatti]

Tony - absolutely no restriction at all on sailmakers but whatever you buy it must comply with the Class measurement rules.  Kevan Bloor at Alverbanks has specialised in N12 sails for literally decades so why go to someone else and miss out on all that experience and expertise.  Winter seasonal discounts will be starting soon - so if you want to save a few quid perhaps do it that way rather than experimenting with unknown quantities.

[tonyelgar]

fair point tim, i ll keep my eye out for that one!

[Roly Mo]

P&B have got their winter sail on now - I think it's 20% off.
RM

[angus]

Hi Mark While I was looking for a set of second hand sails I was told that although sails for carbon masts are cut slightly differently they will work ok on a metal mast especially if they where a year or two old. Obviously if you are buying a new set of sails you should get them made specificly for your mast. Cann't wait to see killer custard chomping up the opposition at loch Tummel:D

[paul turner]

Dear Roly Mo,
P&B's discount on National 12 sails is actually 15% (not 20%), just like Alverbank's winter discount, but our prices are lower anyway.
And Kevan has been making N12 sails since 1965!
Greetings Mark,
Why not give Kevan a call on 01332 342 586 for some serious advice!
paul@alverbanksails.co.uk  :K)  N2020,N2359,N2487,N3157

[Roly Mo]

Only reading from the Y&Y website . . . 'P&B are currently offering up to 20% off sails (all available to order online)'!
It is worth looking out for second hand suits of sails, my Cheshire Cat sailed very happily with Paul Pellings old sails, and Angus did OK with my P&B ones.  One thing to bear in mind if you do buy a second hand suit that the sail plan may not match that on your certificate.  This isn't a huge problem but would require you to update your cert and probably move black bands.  Give me a call or email me if you need more info on this.
We've added you to our Northern and Scottish mailing list, and look forward to seeing you on the water.
RM

[John Meadowcroft]

It is my experience that new sails for carbon masts tend to be cut with more luff round and more fullness.  I assume this is because the carbon masts are more versatile in terms of how far they can bend and that we can sail with fuller sails and get rid of the fullness upwind by bending the mast.
Most modern sails are made out of a laminate sailcloth.  These laminates shrink and the sails become flatter.  As a result it is my opinion that older laminate sails orginally built for carbon masts become progressively more appropriate for most metal masts.  This may be baloney but is does seem to work for P&B ones anyway.
John

[Derek]

It is worth talking to a sailmaker - fullness can come from two sources in a mainsail, broad seaming and luff round.
If you have a full sail and it is mostly cut with broadseaming rather than luff round, it could suit a metal mast well.
If it is all in the luff curve, this is less likely to work.
The best thing to do is try them up and see if you are overpowered unwind when there is 15 - 18 kts when the mast should start to open the leach and depower.
Angel carbon masts are much more flexible than Superspars and so sails for these tend to be cut with even more luff round e.g. Rowsells.
Hope the collection of everyone's thoughts help you find a cost effective solution.
cheers
 
Derek 3510

[Mark Barron]

Magic,
thanks for all the advice, I will keep an eye out for things popping up, and if I win the lottery, then might get a new set!
Mark

[Roly Mo]

Just got P&B's Autumn Sale leaflet - they are now offering 25% off sails.  Dear Santa . . . .

RM