Choosing a 12

[Overomtimistix]

I'm still looking for a 12 as I have recently joined Desborough SC where this is a popular class. It is a river club with associated fluky winds and resticted waters.

I've been looking at this site for a few months. The local fleet is mainly AC boats with a couple of vintage designs.
The boat will be for me to sail with my son, or my wife and son when either feels confident enough. We are all fairly light (less than 20 stone combined weight).
I'm looking at this stage for a fairly stable design.
I would prefer a "plastic" boat to reduce the maintenance.
My budget is up to £1000.
So far my browsing on various internet sites has turned up several options in my price range and at a reasonable distance - all wooden:

a Cheshire Cat in Kent £700
1702 - a Vintage Mark 8 in Essex £550
3482 - a wooden Man'O'War  £900
2692 - a Whisper 4 £800

Would any of these be good or particularly bad for my conditions?
Does anybody know anything about these particular boats?

Would I be better off waiting and saving up for something like a Design 8? (approx £1700)

Any other designs to look out for?
What is the expected price of different designs second hand?
thanks

Dan

[MikeDay]

Dan
As for advice on designs generally, a number of us gave you a steer on the earlier thread and all this holds good.  In age terms, this means that you'll probably not want to look much earlier than a Cheshire Cat and you could also consider its later variants Tiger and Tigress, plus Pipedreams and then through to Crusaders and Design 8s.  The only plastic options will be Design 8 or Baggies, but the latter are less suitable for a place like Desborough.  All the merits of these designs and their typical price ranges are in the design guide elsewhere on this site.  That isn't to say that boats from the China Doll/Whisper era unsuitable - indeed there are quite a few people sailing these actively on inland waters, still doing well and having fun, so you wouldn't go wrong there either.  See especially what Tom at Oulton has done with Le Shed if you want inspiration.  I probably wouldn't go for a double bottomed sea-oriented boat at Desborough as your first Twelve. 
 
As for the price, second hand Twelves are such great value  Any of the ones you're looking at will give you loads of fun and pleasure, a way of getting in to the Class and starting to learn how to sail these boats for a few hundred pounds.  That's what a suit of sails or a combi trailer costs new - and you'll be getting the whole package.  It's pretty easy to see the condition of a wooden boat.  They all need and repay care and attention - and of course bimbling is part of the fun. 
 
There remains a steady market for second hand Twelves of all ages - and at this level, there won't be too much depreciation if the boat stays in good condition - so take the plunge!
 
Mike D
N352?

[DavidYacht]

One of the Crusaders or Design 8's on the second hand list look ideal for your weight and for river sailing, the Design 8's are GRP, Crusaders wood.  China Crisis was a great and pretty boat in its time.

[sam293]

also my baggy 2 could be available for the right price,

beautifully restored, all new fit out, good sails, very nice ally rig, foils just restored hull is immaculate.

looking for aroung £1200

[samlaw]

What about the boats on here (if they are still available)

http://www.national12.org/adverts/index.php?catid=4&order=ad_title&way=0
There is a cheshire cat for £500, it would be worth comparing to the one you have found, to see if it is worth £300 more or has £300 worth of extras (i.e. combi trailer, newer sails) etc.
There are a couple of crusaders you should proberly consider.
£800 for a Whisper seems expensive to me, it should be imaculate or filled with extras for that price.
My suggestion would be to go for the cheapest cheshire cat or crusader that is sailable, then upgrade to plastic for the long term in a year or two's time if there is one on the market then, with the added bonus having more wisdom about the class when purchasinbg. (Being a novice I went down the cheapest route, though my plastic paperdart is less of a risk than wood, and it has proved perfect for me.)

Alternatively you could put some wanted adverts on here and apolloduck, there maybe someone who will part with a spare paperdart or taty design 8 with a little push.

[Overomtimistix]

I thought that I'd start a new thread as I'm moving away from the idea of a vintage 12 - although it still has a strange appeal.

Where abouts are you sam293? The blurb says that Baggy Trousers are not terribly good river boats - although I don't always let that put me off.

[David_Wilkins]

Baggies can be sailed well on the river by lightweights though Iwould er towards a Cheshire Cat -I can't say I've sailed a Baggy but have sailed Cheshire Cats over many years and with a considerable amount of success on the river, especially at Desborough.That being said more success on the river comes from reading the wind and currents than the relatively minor differences that the design will make. You'll struggle to find a GRP 12 for that money unless its a Paper Dart which isn't exactly a slow river boat.
Best thing is to find something with the best rig and sails that you can - good luck. You've chosen a lovely club and a great class.

[angus]

I think it is worth mentioning that the set up is important, it is worth spending a few quid more for a boat with a modern rig with good sails. you can spend an awful lot more on trying to do up and old boat than you will ever get back when selling it, although you can have lots of fun